New Computer

[adio38]

Hey guys, I am looking to build a new computer. Right now I am going with a Asus GeForce GTX 295 with 1792mb 896 (448x2) - bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video card, with 12 gigs of ram. The only thing I am trying to narrow down is the Processor and motherboard. I have talked it over with some people, and I am still torn. I really wanna have some processing power. So for 3D work, witch would be better, the new Intel i7 3.06 ghz by itself? or getting a server bored, and having dual quads. Help me out here guys. Thanks ahead of time for the comments.

[Maph]

Depends on your needs and the work you do.
If you do a lot of high res rendering/sculpting/baking/modeling, etc... -basicly, if you move around massive amounts of data all the time-, server hardware is the way to go if you can afford it. :)
If, on the other hand you're more into game-design and development rather than asset creation (ie. engine-stuff, game-design, shaders, etc...) You're better off with a more appropriate 'gaming' setup.

I have a dual Xeon quad setup with a quadro and 12GB FB-DIMM for my home workstation, but with the Harpertown generation (so 8 logical cores in total).
And I'm very happy with it. :)

We've got an all-purpose dual Nehalem box at work. And that thing is blazingly fast. It's the power of two i7 cores in one machine (16 logical cores), really kickass machine if you ask me.
But they do come pricey though, at least the more mid/high-end versions.
Server boards aren't cheap either. I payed around 450€ for mine (Supermicro X7DWA-N) at the time.

Mind you, if you're going for a server setup, there's not much point in getting a harpertown series proc, since the i7 comes very close in performance and is probably cheaper to setup; not because of proc price, but of memory price. Harpertowns need fully buffered memory, and that sure as hell doesn't come cheap...
Nehalems run on standard DDR3 ECC-REG memory, which comes by a lot cheaper. :)

Hope this helps. :)

[adio38]

Thanks for the reply. I really want to get this machine right. I am a student, I am working mostly in zbrush. I am picking up XSI and doing modeling. I want to be able to render if I have to, specially for projects. Over the past few hours I have been doing some looking. I have narrowed it down to the processor I would be getting if I went dual core. It would be the Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117185 is the website I found it at. I also want to do 12 gigs RAM, and my Asus GeForce GTX 295 with 1792mb 896 (448x2) - bit GDDR3 PCI Express Video card. I am just having trouble now finding a board. Let me know what you think.

[Maph]

Well, I've got nothing but praise for Supermicro boards. They're built to last and it shows. :)
Our Nehalem box at work is also a Supermicro config.
The downside is, you pay for it too. ;)

Some claim Asus build proper server boards too, but I personally always had problems with Asus boards.
12GB ram is no issue for either single proc or dual proc. You've got 6 slots each proc.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon1333/#1366
All the boards starting with X8 are nehalem boards, I'd suggest you check them out a bit. :) Keep in mind, the boards with SAS instead of SATA are a lot more expensive. And unless you need the brute disk power of SAS, I wouldn't recommend it. Way too expensive imho.
The X8DAi is a good workstation board. It has two PCI-E's (x16) and with the new Tylersburg chipset you can also SLI two nvidia cards. The previous generation of Supermicro boards only allowed ATI's Crossfire.

[adio38]

wow, thanks that helps with motherboard questions a lot. I was looking at the supermicro boards. Ok, so with that I was thinking about going with Dual Quads, Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26 GHz. Another reason I was thinking this chip, was because it also has hyperthreding. So please let me know if this set up is not the best, or what changes.
I am going with:
either XFX or ASUS GeForce GTX 295 with 1792mb of RAM
Dual Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz Quad Processors
12 Gigs of Ram

My budget is going to be no more than 2,000. I have been checking out the Quadros, but I want at least 1 gig of on board memory, and to support both Open GL, and Direct X. They are a little out of my price rang. If anybody knows of one, please let me know. But I figured the GTX 295 would do fine until I could get a quadro. Thanks again.

[Maph]

That's a killer setup I'd say. ;) Depending on which mobo you pick, I think you'll be a tad over the 2000 cap though.

As for Quadro's, they support OpenGL and DirectX, but they're built for OpenGL performance. So in OpenGL driven DCC apps you'll see quite the speed increase in terms of response time, quality, etc... And even in some OpenGL driven games, you'll see a boost in performance. But DirectX is another matter. Only max uses DX for it's viewports if I recall correctly, but NVidia has "performance drivers" for Quadro's to use in Max. ;)
Another thing you need to consider with buying a quadro, is that they are quite poor when it comes to texture bandwidth/uploading compared to gamer-grade cards. So displaying a few dozen 4k textures might result in a frame-rate drop as compared to a gamer-card that has a much higher texture-fill rate.

Nvidia recently released a new mid range quadro for quite the affordable price actually. The Quadro FX1800, listed on newegg for about 600$. It got some very praising reviews in the latest 3DWorld issue.

But, if you're not using that comp for professional use (read: your own company), you're better off with a second hand imho. :)
The retail quadro's are überexpensive because of the support you get for them. If one bogs down, you get a replacement in two days during the warranty period.
You obviously don't get that with second hands, but the price is usually a lot better.
I got my FX3700 for about 300€. Hasn't failed me since. :)

[Lamont]

We gotta make a thread on computers and make that a sticky :P. Have one post with price ranges and components.

[adio38]

I agree on making a section for computers. I am a student, but I want to make a computer that will last me the rest of school, and into a couple years after. I may take the gaming card route. Just because yes I want this to be for mainly zbrush/modeling, but I will be putting a couple games on it, nothing major. But like I have posted earlier, I found the GeForce GTX 295, it has just over 1.5 gigs of ram on board. Its 500 dollars. I may go lower end for the video card right now. Not to low though, if I remember right I can get the 285 for a few hundred cheaper. That will enable for me get my quad cores right off. I have been checking out the Supermicro Server MB. I have got it down to three boards. Let me know what ya think.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182192
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182186

[SuperOstrich]

I just built a machine strictly for zbrush work. It's currently pushing my 13M poly Mojo model for comicon and isn't missing a beat at all. I mean seriously stupid fast. Feels like I'm at 1M polys speed wise. Undos are instant too, which was a real problem for me on my quad core machine at work with 8GB of RAM. My new setup is:

i7 920 processor
12GB of 1333Mhz RAM
Gtx 260 sc vidcard

I know I went with the least expensive i7 and not the fastest RAM, but I'm working at a division in zbrush I see no need to exceed at crazy good speeds, and the machine in total was only $980 for everything.

[adio38]

Ok. So after a good 2 - 3 hours looking around, and a few really tasty drinks later. I have come up with a spec sheet. I will post the specs and the link to everything below. Let me know what you all think. Or if I have something wrong, please let me know. I also found Combo deals over Newegg.

Video
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143193

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145233

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117185

Heat Sink
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118051

Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182192

cases
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133132

Power Supplies
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153038


MB + CPU Combo = 639.98
Case + PS Combo = 294.87
Video = 394.99
RAM = 239.99
Head Sink = 79.99
This all comes to a grand total of 1747.76
Now if I wanted to add my 2nd Quad Core, it would go up to 2156.90 those are both with tax added. So that is my spec sheet thus far. I am not 100% on the heat sink, but things may change. Please if anybody has any comments or changes to add, please let me know. Thank you all again.

[SuperOstrich]

I went with this case, it's amazing and I highly recommend it for the foldout motherboard panel.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156078

Edit: I just subdivided one of my subtools a bunch of times in order to get my total polys in the scene to 26M. Editing the model is STILL crazy fast, doesn't slow down even a little. Undos are now taking about 15-20 seconds though. That's more of a memory limitation than anything. I honestly don't see the need for the processor to be any faster. Go with an i7 and buy 16GB of RAM with the money you save on that dual xeon system.

[adio38]

thanks for the recommendation on the case, I will take it into consideration. One of the only reasons I am pushing towards Dual Quads, is because if I chose to render, I have the processors to do it. I found that Dual Quads are better for that then a single one.

[Maph]

Great setup!

As for the heatsink. I've got two of these: http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/hr01x/product_cpu_cooler_hr01x.html
They're quite big though (see links below). But awesome coolers none the less! I've used zalman exclusively on my previous builds, but thermalright really won me over this time.
You can use these passive or active, and with active cooling with an average rpm 120mm fan, I get ~55°C max on full load.

coolers 1 (http://www.maphart.com/uploads/files/8core_002.JPG)
coolers 1 (http://www.maphart.com/uploads/files/8core_003.JPG)
coolers 1 (http://www.maphart.com/uploads/files/8core_004.JPG)

[adio38]

oh wow, nice heat sink. I may have to look those up. What kind of case do you have for those to fit in? Would they fit into either of the cases I am looking at?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133132

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156078

[adio38]

Ok guys, so Im getting the money for my comp. I'm pretty excited. Thanks for all your help Maph, and SuperOstrich. Just a little reminder of what I am getting, I went with lower end Xeon Quads for right now, mainly because of the price difference. But the board that I am getting can support the whole 5500 series, so if when they do come down in price, I can pick them up. I did research on the video card, decided to go with the GTX 285 by BFG Tech. It has 2 gigs of on board, supports both Direct X, and Open GL. I figure this will last me until Direct X 11 comes out, then I will spend the money on a Quadro. Here is my parts list. Please take a look at it, let me know what you think one last time. Thank you guys again.

Video
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143193 - 394.99

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227422 - 244.99

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117185 - 384.99 (2.26 GHz) -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117184 - 539.99

Heat Sink
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029 - 44.98

Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182192- 289.99

cases
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133132 - 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196 - 89.99 - Cooler Master

Power Supplies
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171037 - 109.99

Combo Deals
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.231301 - 169.98 (Tower and PS)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.230199 - 639.98 (MB and CPU)


MB + CPU Combo = 639.98
Case + PS Combo = 169.98
Video = 394.99
RAM = 244.99
Heat Sink = 44.98
Heat Sink = 44.98
Xeon 2.26GHz = 384.99
____________________________
1924.89
.06
___________________________
2040.38

[Maph]

oh wow, nice heat sink. I may have to look those up. What kind of case do you have for those to fit in? Would they fit into either of the cases I am looking at?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133132

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156078

Sorry for the late reply, didn't see it. :)

You need to have quite a large case actually. I've got a Coolermaster CM-stacker 800 and it just fits in there. There's about one or two inches of space between the top of the coolers and the sidepanel. :)
But they fit with any "mid/high end"-gamer cases I think.

Is the PSU you posted EPS enabled? You can damage your mobo/CPU if you don't use EPS PSU's on server hardware.
Good call on picking a modular PSU though, I've got a modular 1KW PSU, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. :)

[adio38]

Maph, I looked on the specs of the power supplies, I think that is what you meant by PSU. I do not see anything about EPS enabled. That have to do with Electro Shock? Please if you know of a power supply, please let me know. i am trying to keep the cost around 2,000. Right now its 2,040. Also the case, I have been told that the case i chose should work, but I am all ears when it comes to suggestions. I am listening to you guys.

[Maph]

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/QPI/5500/X8DAL-i.cfm <- is this the mobo that you're getting?

You need two 8 pin and one 24 pin connector (you'll have to check if that's included with the PSU). But dual socket usually means that the EPS specifications need to be followed for the 8/24 pin 12V connectors.

And I quote from the XD8AL-i manual
Warning! 1. To prevent damage to the power supply or motherboard,
please use a power supply that contains a 24-pin and two 8-pin power
connectors. Be sure to connect these connectors to the 24-pin (JPW1)
and the two 8-pin (JPW2,JPW3) power connectors on the motherboard.
Failure in doing so will void the manufacturer warranty on your power
supply and motherboard.

Power Connectors
A 24-pin main power supply connector(JPW1)
and two 8-pin CPU PWR connectors (JPW2/
JPW3) on the motherboard. These power
connectors meet the SSI EPS 12V specifi -
cation. In addition to the 24-pin ATX power
connector, the 12V 8-pin CPU PWR connectors
at JPW2/JPW3 must also be connected
to your power supply. See the table on the
right for pin defi nitions.


I've got this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371012 It's 90$ more than yours, but there's obvioulsy cheaper alternatives. Check in the 800watt range (I wouldn't recommend going lower then 800w, better safe then sorry :)), but you need to check for the "ATX12V / EPS12V" bit in the description. When it mentions EPS12V, you're safe. :)

[adio38]

I see. Thanks man for the help. Ya, that is the MB I was looking at. I tried to go back onto Newegg, but they said it has been deactivated. I guess they do not sell it anymore. Is that MB a decent one? I see what your talking about with the power supply. Ill keep these in mind, I am trying to get things 100% so I can have a friend of mine order them through his business.

[CompanionCube]

that RAM won't work on a xeon motherboard, you need ECC-Registered RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2012710541%201052429248&name=DDR3%201333%20(PC3%2010600)

hope you didn't buy it yet

[adio38]

no i did not buy anything yet, still fine tuning. Thanks for the catch, I over looked that.

[adio38]

Ok, so I am still stumped on hardware to get for my machine. Specially the CPUs. Keep in mind that I want to use this for 3D work, I am going to upgrade to a quadro when I get some more money. I also posted on Zbrushcentral, and i was told on there that Zbrush will use as many cores as you have. So with that, what would be better, the new i7 core, or Dual Xeon Quad Core?

[mike_fowler]

Thinking into the future, if you go with an i7 (and thus an i7 motherboard) you'll have better upgradability in the future, especially considering Intel already announced they'd be sticking with the same socket type through 2010. Just something to think about.

[SuperOstrich]

I can't find it anymore, but I had a comparison site with all sorts of benchmarks of the i7 series vs just about everything else and it was staggering how much faster the i7's were than every other quad core out there. Of course it wasn't comparing it to dual quadcores, but compared to other single quads, it was a huge difference. I'm willing to bet that if you went with lower end dual xeons, that a single i7 would outperform it. Granted I have no proof in front of me to back that up, but I bet you'd be more than satisfied and your wallet would be very happy with you. :)

[CompanionCube]

heres the best CPU benchmark site (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html). i think get an i7 system. it will be cheaper, an i7 920 is the best bang for buck. it is 2.66GHZ , but the next one up is the i7 950 3.06GHZ and is almost double the price.

another reason RAM is cheaper for i7 system than the EEC RAM required for the xeon system, so you could get more and faster RAM. some of the high end i7 boards can handle up to 24GB of RAM for later upgrade, but trust me, 12GB is loads, i myself only have 8GB and have done large scale + large resolution renders on only 8GB. Zbrush can only at the moment can only use up to 4GB on a 64-bit system, i'm not sure what the future holds for zbrush 4 but all those amazing zbrush sculpts you see out there have been done on 4GB or less.

you want to make sure you get fast hard drives, everyone forgets this. you can have a really powerful computer but then slow hard drives will make it pointless. the fastest hard drive is Seagate DiamondMax 23 (SSD are faster though) according to the same benchmark site as the cpu site http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/high_end_drives.html . you could go for SSD drives for your OS drive for example, but not sure how long SSD last. you could even just get a small one for your virtual memory drive (only need 8gb+) but not really sure if anyone has done that, just an idea.

[adio38]

Ok, so after doing some more research, and going through magazines and reading about new parts. I have changed my whole setup. I decided to go with an i7 core system. Here is my setup specs.

ASUS P6T Deluxe MB (may change the board, but doing with ASUS)
Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz CPU
CORSAIR XMS3 12GB RAM
XFX GS250XZDFL GeForce GTS 250 Core Edition 1GB (Video)
ZALMAN CNPS9900LED 120mm (Heat Sink)
COOLER MASTER Storm Scout SGC-2000-KKN1-GP (Case)
COOLER MASTER UCP RS900-AAAAA3 900W ATX12V / EPS12V (PSU)

Thats my set up. The case may change, along with the MB. Below are the links to the parts.

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211

MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145233

Video
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150437

Heatsink
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118046

Case/PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.240158

My video card also may change, but I am thinking ahead, with Direct X 11 coming out, I figured I would put my money into my CPU for now, and when DX11 comes out, I will spend the money and get a video card. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks again.