New here!

[Kazik]

Hey,

New here, wanted to give my formal hello. I'm new to doing 3D modeling/game design. Teaching myself at the current moment, I've been a graphic/web designer for the better part of 10 years. 3D art really has caught my interest and I'm diving in head first, so I'm working through as many tutorials as i can to get familiar with the program and the tools.

But I'll stop rambling. What i hope to get out of this is to get some constructive criticism on work i start doing once i feel comfortable enough to put it up, as well as learn from the people who do this everyday as either a hobby or those lucky enough to have a professional career, which i one day will hopefully have.

Thanks guys!

Terry

[Lamont]

Hi, how did you get 0 posts?

[sinz]

Very nice trick there are also some user names that are interesting:
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/member.php?u=10380
Good luck Kazik

[Kazik]

Not quite sure about the posts, that's pretty odd though.

I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions about which direction i should go as far as learning. So far I've been doing tutorials, and eventually I plan on going to school, just wondering how some of you broke into the industry, and if you have any tips for the novice.

Good to meet you guys. :thumb:

[cookepuss]

Hi, how did you get 0 posts?
Not quite sure, but I did manage to rectify that a bit. I suspect that there was a problem in the original post approval. I was able to re-approve one his top one. Hopefully, this will get that post counter running properly.

I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions about which direction i should go as far as learning.
1) Start small. Every newbie wants to make cool characters. The problem is that character work is an advanced topic. You need to crawl before you can walk and such. Start with stuff you see around you or stuff for which you can easily get references. Chairs. Computer mice. Handguns. Toy airplanes. That type of stuff. This will allow you to build a solid foundation from which to advance. Learning the fundamentals is a must.

2) Learn the lingo. What's the difference between a color map and a diffuse map? What is phong shading? What's a smoothing group? What is a Base 2 texture? To most of us around here, this is as natural to say as "hot pocket." :) If you're a newbie, this is like a foreign language. We take it for granted. Google up 3D terminology and you should find some of what you need to know. Even though CG is art it is also highly technical. Science & sorcery.

3) Enter a Mini-Comp or Challenge if you've moved beyond basics. It doesn't matter if you win. You most likely won't. However, being forced into a deadline and being made to work under technical constraints will push you in a way that simple self-education might not. You'll be forced to work more efficiently and find creative solutions. You'll have work on somebody else's time schedule instead of procrastinating. If nothing else, entering a comp is an exercise in discipline.

4) Post your work. It doesn't matter if it sucks. It most likely will. That's okay. We'll rip into it. We'll make you cry. Then you'll move on and get better because of our critiques. It's all part of the process. Having a fresh set of impartial eyes is crucial. Even pros can overlook simple mistakes or visual artifacts if they've been staring at something too long. I can't tell you how many times I've modeled a character that looked great late at night, only to find out that it looked like a deformed turd by morning's light. It happens. Get a 2nd, 3rd, & 4th opinion. The more impartial the better.

5) The artist makes the tool not the other way around. Knowing Maya or 3DS Max may open up some more job opportunities for you, but the simple fact is that there is no one "best app" out there. Anything you can do in Maya I can do in Cinema4D. It's not about tools. It's about technique. It's not about extensibility. It's about experience. A great artist can make any 3D app his b***h whereas a bad artist will get bullied around in even the most popular, expensive 3D app on the planet. In the end, a 3D app is just a tool - no different than a paintbrush, chisel, or violin.

If you need links to app specific tutorials or books, feel free to ask.

[Kazik]

Cook, thanks for the reply, i really do appreciate it.

I would eventually like to do some awesome character models, however i do understand the crawl before you walk scenario.

I'll look up the lingo, because i definitely don't know as much as i need to and/or should. I'm hoping to progress fairly quickly.. I'm a fast learner, but more of a factor than that; i love digital art, and i don't suck at it.. so aside from the learning curve, i think I'll be able to hold my own.

I don't like posting up models done from tutorials, at least tutorials like planes that come from 3ds max that show you step by step how to do it. maybe once i step into some more elaborate and complex tutorials (depending when i get there), I'll throw some up.

So I'm assuming Cinema4D is a comparable program to Maya? I've always known what the programs were related to field wise, i just don't know their main potential aside from 3Ds Max being a modeling/animation/environment tool. Maya, i believe is a way to mesh video/3d and create movies? not exactly sure.. I'd like to know what they all do, as far as their main uses, and their extended uses if pushed. 3Ds Max, Lightwave, Maya, etc.

It's all knowledge, and i like to know the most i can about what im working with.. so any information would be greatly appreciated. I also know that i could google this information, but sometimes it's better to get a rundown from the folks who use the programs on a day to day, and they give a more less-technical down to earth non bullsh** answer.

Thanks guys!
(for the warm welcome as well)

[cookepuss]

So I'm assuming Cinema4D is a comparable program to Maya?

C4D is quite comparable to Autodesk's products. The only real reasons why it has never taken any foothold in the game industry are:

1) Maya & 3ds got there about a decade earlier and pretty much cornered that market
2) It wasn't until 6 or 7 years ago that C4D got really strong production ready character animation tools. (3D World has a nice C4D spider walk cycle tutorial in this month's issue.)

Functionally, the app holds its own quite easily and even better in some regards. It just isn't a real contender in the games industry. C4D is currently used most movies, architectural visualization, motion graphics, & pre-production design. It has been used in a lot of high profile projects.

C4D's biggest selling points (currently) are:

1) Very strong motion graphics tools, which means a whole lot if you work on TV advertising or bumper footage creation.
2) An incredibly flexible non-photorealistic rendering engine.
3) Strong 3rd party renderer support including: Renderman, FinalRender, VRay, Maxwell, etc.. The built-in renderer is no slouch either. Bucket rendering. Fast output. Quality end results. Easy to setup.
4) BodyPaint3D, which is and has been an integrated part of C4D for years now.
5) Strong, character animation tools that require less scripting than something like Maya. You can script a lot of your character rig's behavior, but you don't need to. Stuff like C4D's advanced morph system blow Maya's out of the water.
6) Studio friendly features like XRefs, multi-platform network rendering, COLLADA, FBX, node-based scripting, etc.
7) Strong poly modeling tools. Not the absolute best on the market, but stiill strong and very quick to work with. There is also some fairly decent built-in retopo functionality, but most people don't know how to set it up. :p
8) Very scriptable particle effects system that can fake everything from fluids to fire to crowd behavior.
9) Excellent and easy to use hair and cloth features that produce very professional results for a wide variety of hair/cloth styles & types.
10) Something like 4-8hrs worth of video training material on DVD, including one DVD devoted totally to advanced character rigging and animation
11) Serial # based licensing scheme. No online activation. No licensing server. Not tied to your hardware. Just install, drop in your serials, and go.
12) Supported by ZBrush's new GoZ feature, which should (hopefully) arrive on the PC platform very soon.
13) Extremely tight connectivity with Adobe After Effects, which is great if you have to do compositing of CG and real world footage.

C4D's weaker points are:
1) Mediocre dynamics module. Actually, it's not bad. It's just old and designed more for techs than for artists.
2) Very little C4D specific training material outside of Germany. Most of the techniques, including the animation stuff, can be adapted from Maya tutorials though.
3) Very little, if any, penetration in the game market.
4) Mostly a poly & SDS program. There is limited built-in support for spline modeling. However, for a nominal cost, you can buy a very good spline modeling plugin to fill the gap. Not a big issue nowadays though, as spline modeling is really used mostly in industrial production work.

Price-wise, C4D is very much in line with Maya. IIRC, I think that I paid something like

I've always known what the programs were related to field wise, i just don't know their main potential aside from 3Ds Max being a modeling/animation/environment tool. Maya, i believe is a way to mesh video/3d and create movies?
They can all do the same thing. It's like choosing a car. They will all get you to the same place. Most will even get you there at the same speed and with as much comfort. The difference is usually in the paint color and the smaller, less significant creature comforts.

"x" program may do "y" easier than "z" program. However, they'll both get your there. It's not about "if." It's about "how."

In the end, which you choose depends on your industry of choice. You won't find C4D at Rockstar or Nintendo, but you may find it in Sony Pictures or on the desktops of select artists at ILM. Some industries just favor different apps.

The gaming industry is a little more narrowed down to Maya, 3ds, & Softimage. However, in the film & visualization industries, anything goes. It depends more from studio to studio.

In the end, an app is just an app. That's it.

[Kazik]

Wow, awesome quick lesson on C4D, thanks!

I guess now all i get to do is sit quiet for a while and develop some skills. thanks for the info cook, i really do appreciate it

:thumb:

[Draxxuss]

Not quite sure, but I did manage to rectify that a bit. I suspect that there was a problem in the original post approval. I was able to re-approve one his top one. Hopefully, this will get that post counter running properly.


1) Start small. Every newbie wants to make cool characters. The problem is that character work is an advanced topic. You need to crawl before you can walk and such. Start with stuff you see around you or stuff for which you can easily get references. Chairs. Computer mice. Handguns. Toy airplanes. That type of stuff. This will allow you to build a solid foundation from which to advance. Learning the fundamentals is a must.

2) Learn the lingo. What's the difference between a color map and a diffuse map? What is phong shading? What's a smoothing group? What is a Base 2 texture? To most of us around here, this is as natural to say as "hot pocket." :) If you're a newbie, this is like a foreign language. We take it for granted. Google up 3D terminology and you should find some of what you need to know. Even though CG is art it is also highly technical. Science & sorcery.

3) Enter a Mini-Comp or Challenge if you've moved beyond basics. It doesn't matter if you win. You most likely won't. However, being forced into a deadline and being made to work under technical constraints will push you in a way that simple self-education might not. You'll be forced to work more efficiently and find creative solutions. You'll have work on somebody else's time schedule instead of procrastinating. If nothing else, entering a comp is an exercise in discipline.

4) Post your work. It doesn't matter if it sucks. It most likely will. That's okay. We'll rip into it. We'll make you cry. Then you'll move on and get better because of our critiques. It's all part of the process. Having a fresh set of impartial eyes is crucial. Even pros can overlook simple mistakes or visual artifacts if they've been staring at something too long. I can't tell you how many times I've modeled a character that looked great late at night, only to find out that it looked like a deformed turd by morning's light. It happens. Get a 2nd, 3rd, & 4th opinion. The more impartial the better.

5) The artist makes the tool not the other way around. Knowing Maya or 3DS Max may open up some more job opportunities for you, but the simple fact is that there is no one "best app" out there. Anything you can do in Maya I can do in Cinema4D. It's not about tools. It's about technique. It's not about extensibility. It's about experience. A great artist can make any 3D app his b***h whereas a bad artist will get bullied around in even the most popular, expensive 3D app on the planet. In the end, a 3D app is just a tool - no different than a paintbrush, chisel, or violin.

If you need links to app specific tutorials or books, feel free to ask.

hear hear!

[Kazik]

So what is yalls take on school? anybody here attend a formal school? or are you all home grown self taught pros? what colleges did you attend if you did, i was looking into the Art Institute.. so far anyways

[BigJohn]

So what is yalls take on school? anybody here attend a formal school? or are you all home grown self taught pros? what colleges did you attend if you did, i was looking into the Art Institute.. so far anyways

There are quite a bit of threads on this issue. Should use the Search function to find some more.

But this particular one from a few months ago was particularly interesting:
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9173