What to start next?

[Twindragon]

Now that I'm pretty much done my last model I was thinking of a concept for a new model. Before I begin thinking of ideas I wanted to ask some of you on the forum for advice. These models are going to be for my demo reel. Ive been out of school for a year and a half almost now and still no luck with a job and I reeaallly want a job, so I want to model something game companies want to see. Some of my friends in the industry tell me to model celebrities because it shows that you can model recognizable characters but sometimes I think modeling kick as creatures is the way to go. What do you think?

[vinny]

i think creating original ideas would be the best way to go because it shows how jaded or unjaded your imagination is by all the ideas that are marketed daily. it would also look as if you have fresh, appealing material that can be further exploited for monies!

[ThatDon]

To be honest, it's pretty damn hard to breaking into the industry as a character artist, I have found this out first hand. So it would be wise to sharped up your enviornment skills as you will have a much easier time getting a job that way then later transfering to the character department.

[Gavin]

I think if you're going for a job that uses recreation, like EA Burnaby, doing some likeness models might not be a bad idea. But, in my experience, even as a character artist you tend to do environment work anyways when it NEEDS to be done. Other than that, maybe target a few companies and make things that are similar to their games...maybe "Hulk" or Simpsons characters for Radical here in Vancouver or a dinosaur (not one in armor :P) for Propaganda...

Cheers man,
Gav

[Twindragon]

So what do you think the chances of getting a job doing environment work and then switching to characters would be in a company? Ive asked some people if I should switch to environment work and they told me if you are happy with character modeling stick with that because once you get in the industry it will be hard to switch to character modeling.

[Gavin]

Personally, I just stuck with characters and landed a job. At that job though, I also did props, textures, whatever was needed. That's me though, other people will have other experiences :)

Gav

[poopinmymouth]

If you don't mind one or the other, then go with Environments, as there are a lot more env positions in the industry, and seemingly less people trying to get into that area, which makes it a bit easier. However, if you really enjoy characters, and don't have any impending financial doom, I'd suggest sticking with what you like till you can make it a reality.

Sounds like Gavin dished out some nice area specific advice. Go go gavin!

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[Twindragon]

I could try my hand at some environment work if it strengthens my chances of getting in the industry. Where is a good place to learn more about environment art though? The modeling is no problem for me but its the unwrapping and texturing that I have problems with. The assets like crates, barrels, trees etc I understand but when it comes to texturing buildings do you unwrap the building like you would a character or make certain walls different clusters and put separate textures on? For a demo reel how big should the environment be that you are showing. should you only have one environment?

[los]

Its really hit or miss when i comes to finding a job man, you kinda have to know what the studios are looking for and model based on their style you know what I mean. So I would just do research on various studios you plan on applying for and try to mimic some of there characters

[Marcus Dublin]

I would have to disagree a bit with Los in saying that you have to mimic a studios particular style. If you were to do so you would have a mismash of work that may turn some people off. Art directors can spot talent plain and simple, the work you've displayed is pretty much in line with what's going on in the industry, at least from a technical and work flow stand point. To be honest this is what art tests are for, the person looking at your work will say "he's got some skill, now lets see what he can do with our concept art and if he can match our style!"

Before working working at Kaos Studios all I did was work on fantasy stuff and it didn't lend itself to the type of game the studio was making but they gave me an art test and they liked it enough to offer me the gig! I would recommend you familiarize your self with environment, vehicle, and weapon art. Chances are you may like it more than just making characters and the experience could be helpful in the long run, I can attest to this because I've done all of the above. With that said I agree with most of the comments in saying that the industry is in need of good environment artists but if character work is where your heart is then go for it and don't look back!:cool:

[Marcus Dublin]

Twindragon: The assets like crates, barrels, trees etc I understand but when it comes to texturing buildings do you unwrap the building like you would a character or make certain walls different clusters and put separate textures on?

Marcus: Things like buildings, walls, floors, etc. are not unwrapped like a character unless you doing complete maps. The most common way to do this is to tile your textures, you would create tileable textures and then apply them to your geo. Your UV's in a sense would at first glance look like a mess and would not adhere to the same principles you learned when doing characters.There's really more to it and if I happen to find any tutorials I'll send them to ya.

Twindragon: For a demo reel how big should the environment be that you are showing. should you only have one environment?

Marcus: I would stick to doing a few real world props, barrels, crates, dumpsters, etc. You can also have one nice indoor environment, and one exterior environment. For example, the indoor environment can consist of a log cabin, garage, warehouse, etc. The exterior could be something like a basketball court, park, store front, etc. Just remember to keep it manageable and competent. Keep in mind your showing off not only your artistic skill but you technical skill as well, ie: "you know how to put a scene together".:)

[Twindragon]

Thanks for the info Marcus. Its official I'm going to work on a level. Starting with an exterior level and then I will work on an interior. Ive narrow it down to either an area of Venice Italy or an old gas station.

Something like this for Venice, with the gondolas, bridges and gondola poles.
http://www.paul.bz/images/Whatdoyoudowhenyoureoverwhelmedwithtoomu_A873/2006Italy0097.jpg

Or like an old style gas station like this one.
http://www.old-picture.com/united-states-1930s-1940s/pictures/Old-Gas-Station.jpg

What do you guys think? Which one should I do?

[ThatDon]

Venice FTW ;)

[butt_sahib]

i totally dig that gas station.
I also tyhikn that the gas station has more positive prospects. I,e, thinking of a generic game- iw ould say the stuff you make in the gas station will me more likey to match with it. If you know what imean

BTW,
Youve inspired me to make a level of my own. Will be simple though. Im think along the lines of a "public washroom gone bad"

[miezis]

here's how i think - if you can model Venice, you can model a gas station :) besides i think it would be more challenging and interesting thing to do. if you look at games though, you see a generic gas station more often than a beautiful fragment of a city, and that makes me sad!!!

[blankslatejoe]

both of those offer interesting challenges actually... venice would allow you to show off creative resource management--alot of it wouldnt need unique textures and the real skill would be in managing how you constructed everything.

the gas station would, on the other hand, have a lot of unique textures, and the raw creation would be what you flex there

personally, i think the gas station would make a better portfolio piece--its more contained and..well...anyone can make A gas station...but THAT gas station? It's got a lot of character, and being able to show that 'character' in a model is something that might really impress.

either way, goodluck!

[auctane]

Gas station reminds me of all the TF2 western style thats going around lately, so Venice gets my vote.

[Twindragon]

I'm thinking I'm going to model the Venice environment. The gas station does look fun but there is a lot of cool things I can experiment with such as adding caustics and making the water look cool. adding the decorative details on the buildings etc. I'm excited I've been downloading some reference and starting to plan this thing. I have a few questions that some of you might be able to help me with though.

1) Size of texture maps compared to size of object for next gen games. for instance what would the texture map size be for a barrel compared to a cereal box, although none will probably be in my environment lol

2) How big for tileable textures for next gen. I think the main textures for hl2 are 512 x 512.

3) when doing special fx like smoke and water etc whats the best way to simulate these fx so it mimics what real time game engines can do?

thanks guys when I start my planning and modeling I will post a new thread to show my progress.

[poopinmymouth]

1) Most games have a pixel per foot/meter rule, and then the env artists stick to it. Sometimes it's 30 pixels a foot, sometimes 300. Just pick something reasonable for a more standard object and try to adhere to it.

2) 512x512 is a good size. 1024x1024 max. I know some places are still using 256's for console tileable maps.

3) Use sprites, with textures on them. Try to keep your sprites alive at a time low, and count the triangles of them. In movies, they might use sprites but they use millions, and they use true particles. With games, you can have a couple hundred, maybe a few thousand total for all particle effects on scene at once. You have to help fake the volume with good texture maps. Just make whatever particle system you use, always face the camera with the sprites (sometimes called "billboards") This makes the particle systems look more full, as apposed to the sprites being allowed to face any direction.

I'm sure some real environment artists can answer more clearly or better, but I saw your unanswered question and figured I'd pop in.

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