Using video games to teach...

[G Saviour18]

Hi, I’m a UK game design student currently working on my dissertation as part of my BA (Hons) degree, my dissertation title is Digital Game Based Learning (DGBL) in Education and I was hoping to hear the opinions and views from UK game developers about using video games to teach. I would appreciate feedback from anyone really, I'm aware this site is visited by a wide range of countries so feel free to post even if you're not from the UK. If you have any knowledge or experience with using or creating digital games to teach then please feel free to contribute your thoughts on the subject, if you haven’t any experience with the medium I’d be interested to hear what you think about the possibility of using digital games to teach.

One of the main issues with DGBL which has led me to post here on this forum is that educators and game developers do not work together to create games, this does not happen as commercial game developers go where the money is, right now high quality games are being produced only for entertainment. This ongoing forum thread will hopefully serve as a basis for the collective attitudes and opinions of using DGBL in mainstream education.

I will be asking teaching professionals their perspective on another forum to see what the current general understanding and feelings towards DGBL are as well. With the collected views from the various online forums I hope to be able to construct my own questions and findings on bridging this gap between educators and industry, it may also allow me to have a more local understanding of thoughts towards DGBL. Since most of the research into DGBL has been conducted abroad, receiving first hand opinions on the matter from UK educators might help to cast a new light on my thoughts of DGBL within this country.

I welcome any contribution to this discussion, whether or not you have had experience with DGBL, I would appreciate thoughts from all, thank you.

Steven Cronin

**EDIT** Sorry about posting too much last time, I can ramble incoherently for a while sometimes XD

For anyone interested in following the discussion I've posted the same question here:

http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=70299

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/389936.aspx

[Beartastic]

(From Australia)

I went to primary school in the late '80s and we had lessons where we'd play games. Some of them were typing games, which generally were terrible at teaching us to type. Then there was Carmen Sandiego, which was brilliant fun and taught us a lot about the world's flags, capitals, countries and dangerous criminals (curse you Dazzle Annie). This game essentially broke up rote learning with some great, intermittent sound effects, menus and animations.

I feel like one of the biggest problems with current DGBL is that universities often call these 'serious games'. You might as well call them 'unfun games' or 'unplayed games'. More often than not I see these games made to simulate rather than educate/entertain. Loud arcade sounds, flashy PopCap animations, that's what I think these games need. More on the side of Carmen Sandiego than typing tutor. If people choose to play them because they're fun, not to learn, that's when you've won.

[G Saviour18]

Thank you for your comment, I realise looking at my original post that I wrote too much and talked like a mad man, still you read it so thanks, my original post has been edited now :D

In response to your Typing Tutor, have you ever seen Typing of the Dead? Possibly the only true DGBL game out there at the moment in my opinion, as I mentioned on another forum this fulfilled the learning outcome ( though a simple goal it still achieved this), had the fun and high production value of a commercial retail game and people got better at something without even realizing it, I loved that aspect of DGBL.

Carmen Sandiago sounds like it left a good impression on you, when the teacher used this game, was it used as a solidtary activity or integrated into the lesson to say further your interest in the current lesson? One of the main barriers left to uing DGBL seems to be how to actually use the game in a class environment, I'd just like to see whether or not this positivie impact of this game was left on you through the game alone or how the teacher actually implemented it into the lesson.

Thanks again for your comment, its very much appreciated :D

[BigJohn]

This is something I know very little about, but I find interesting still.

Honestly, I don't know who in his right mind would go buy a game for the sake of learning something. It's the same story as using TV for educational purposes. Like when I was a kid, there were always programs that were meant to be educational for kids, and I always hated them.

What's interesting though is that now as an adult I actually do watch Discovery and History channels quite a lot, because I think it's interesting.

Now, you may think that won't translate into games, but that's not true. Let me give you one small example. I saw this show a couple of years ago about WW2 and the invasion of Normandy. This is a topic that has been done to death in video games. I have never seen actual pictures of the beach, or any of the footage from there, but man, I felt like I was there before. Simply because of the (maybe unhealthy) amount of hours I spent playing Battlefield, Call of Duty etc. The developers just did a really good job capturing this historical moment. And the fact that there was plenty of gun-fire didn't hurt either :)

So in that regard, I think that video games have a lot to offer in the way of teaching things like history. It's just an indirect route.

It's more in the way of inspiring people to do their own research. Like when I played God of War, that inspired me to go look up actual Greek and Roman mythology and history.

Another thought I wanted to share was about MMOs. A few years ago when I was in college, me and some friends were geeking out on WoW talk. This girl that hung out with us felt out of place, and she said "it's like you're speaking a foreign language or something". At this point someone came up with the very scary thought of what if there actually was a foreign language in WoW? There's a good chance there will be a group of geeks somewhere talking about the game, in the game's language!

There are already people out there who speak Klingon or Elvish for some reason. Trust me, if the Night Elves in WoW spoke an actual language, there would be someone out there that will learn it. People spend so much time on these games that it's definitely enough to learn a language.

Anyways, that's all from me for now. Was probably not what you were looking for, but hey, it's what I got :)

[G Saviour18]

Thanks for your comment, its interesting hearing what you had to say about it considering you said you knew little of it, as you brought up a few good points that have actually had a lot of formal reserach carried out on them :thumb:

It's more in the way of inspiring people to do their own research. Like when I played God of War, that inspired me to go look up actual Greek and Roman mythology and history.

Thats referred to tangential learning, which is basically learning about something through a medium you are already interested in, what more you say this then inspired you to go research on actual mythology, which shows games acting as a stimulus for furthering discussion and giving learning a more meaningful light, if games can be used to inspire, and motivate a learner into self educating as you did, thats half the argument of using them in schools. Naturally we all learn better when we are learning about something that we want to learn about and that has meaning to us, if games can be used to motivate students to learn then why not use them as part of mainstream education?

I probably went over the top there a little but alot of the stuff you mentioned certainly holds truth when using games to educate, they have actually proven to be good learning tools, in addition to this this can enagage and motivate students to learn, that is one of the biggest issues with traditional learning, a lot of students become disaffected from learning, as mainstream schooling leaves behind a lot of students who don't fit into the academic mould, which essentially favours the memorisation of a large body of facts.

Thanks for your input though, its much appreciated :D

[Dantes-X]

Well, I think it is absolutly possible to teach or educate trough games. Games are even able to manipulate people. For example Bioshock. Bioshock is build as I know with the ideas of Ayan Rands books. Telling about power, utopia and freedom. People wich wanted to be free from religion, nations and censorship.
When I played the game I thougt "Wow, a country without censorship. This would be great in germany but sounds like there could be consequences too."
People meaby start to think about these topics if the play such games. It is not a promise that they will be teached with it but meaby they will.

Metal Gear Solid is also a game wich could educate and teach but people will be only teached if they want to think about it and not just killing around and hide in boxes (wich is very funny).

Thats how I think about learning trough story in games. There are also typical learning games but the most of them are not very exiting.

(sorry for the english mistakes. it was a long time since i was on a english speaking forum)

[dustinbrown]

On a related note, Siggraph is having a competition on this very subject this year, sponsored by Disney Research.

http://www.learningchallenge2010.com/

[Dantes-X]

Meaby it is also interesting for you what this guy has to say http://www.youtube.com/user/kirithem#p/u/9/rN0qRKjfX3s

[William_C_Pow]

I have been saying for a while that video could be teach more effectively than traditional methods. If there were a large enough market for educational games, I would probably prefer to work on those.