3Ds Max 2011

[darkfox]

Maya 2011 (http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13413) was posted up but I was more interested in max 2011 new features such as viewport canvas modelling and texturing / Composite feature and others as shown on the site.
still seems weird to me that Autodesk release a new update every year with next year's date on the end:think:

Link
3Ds Max 2011 (http://area.autodesk.com/3dsmax2011)

[seven]

the painting tools look pretty sweet. I just wonder how buggy it is.

[BigJohn]

Eh... this doesn't seem all that interesting. Is it just me, or does it seem like they're merging Maya and Max slowly? I saw some of Max's skinning tools in Maya 2011, and now I'm seeing a node-based material editor in Max.

Anyways, the painting stuff seems cool. But probably will only use it for fixing seams and whatnot. For actual painting I need real-time projection painting. Which they had a non-real-time version of in 2010, but I found it not very useful. So if that's improved at all (and I didn't see that in the video), then that could be a really major feature that I'd love. But as it is, it's kinda meh...

Gonna have to check it out for myself though.

[Shadownami92]

The paint tool looks like it's an improved version of Maya's paintFX tools. But being able to align things on another objects edgeloops seems pretty helpful for adding bolts and stuff to machinery.

[BigJohn]

There's this script I've been using for years that does just that. So I guess that is a cool feature, I just didn't notice it because in my mind you can already do that. But yeah, that's actually a neat thing too now that I think about it.

[BigJohn]

Found this video showing some new UI stuff in max2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQHvZ8JZV3U

The coolest thing there, and something I actually wrote a maxscript for, is the new way you select loops and rings. Real cool that it's now built-in

[dustinbrown]

I think the new node based material editor looks slick. I remember when NewTek incorporated a node UI into LightWave's surface editor. It was a little strange to get used to at first, but it does allow you to work faster once you're used to it.

[Wynn]

I'm glad they're adding a node based editor!

And I'm really hoping the viewport canvas tools are done properly and are robust enough to use. It'll be nice to be able to stay in the same app to fix seams/ paint some etc if it's not buggy or worthless. Here's hoping its not just a hack

[Draxxuss]

Wynn - I sat through an extensive one on one with a guy at the autodesk booth pods. the VP canvas looks fantastic... I can now throw away Bodypaint.

[BigJohn]

Wynn - I sat through an extensive one on one with a guy at the autodesk booth pods. the VP canvas looks fantastic... I can now throw away Bodypaint.

Do you know by any chance if it has real-time projection based painting? Like bodypaint does. That's the one thing I've been trying to figure out about this. If so... awesome!

[Wynn]

Wynn - I sat through an extensive one on one with a guy at the autodesk booth pods. the VP canvas looks fantastic... I can now throw away Bodypaint.

I had meant to stop by and ask some questions from them but ran out of time. Glad you did! Thanks :) Glad to hear its good

[dustinbrown]

The viewport canvas tools look really nice. I hope they include some features for working from reference photographs, an eye dropper and a clone stamp tool, so you can grab pixel info from an image you have up on screen.

Also, I wonder if I'll be able to save that texture out as a PSD with layers preserved, in case I want to jump over to Photoshop to do something.

The object paint feature actually reminds me a lot of how the stroke pallet works in Adobe Illustrator.

[Wynn]

Just downloaded the trial to check it out. The viewport canvas is awesome. Best. Feature. Ever.

[Cyrael]

Eh... this doesn't seem all that interesting. Is it just me, or does it seem like they're merging Maya and Max slowly? I saw some of Max's skinning tools in Maya 2011

I definitely feel like they're trying to accomplish this - much like adobe is doing with after effects and photoshop (*new*(but not really) puppet tool in photoshop..)

or maybe they're just lazy and instead of improving upon existing features they just take what works in one program and add it to the other, which isn't necessarily a bad thing..

[POFFINGTON]

saw this at GDC looks loads better compared to 2010

[protovisionary]

Sorta makes sense anyway. Maya & Max each have a fair share of overlap in what markets they serve. Plus, there's a lot of functionality overlap. If they can slowly merge the products then migration is a non-issue for the retired app(s). On top of that, with one code base to work with, they don't have to retain redundant staff. When 3DS Maya comes, and I do believe it will, Autodesk will be able to cleanly cut staff without affecting R&D. Plus, they'll save money while simultaneously retaining the number paid licenses. If they can fold Softimage into the mix too.... One App to Rule Them All.

[BigJohn]

I'm messing around with Viewport Canvas right now, and man, it's awesome. I think it's good enough to totally replace Bodypaint, but I can't know for sure until I do an actual project with it.

But so far, real cool :mugs:

[Wynn]

Yeah I'm really liking the vp canvas. I also like the new material editor.. they've been needing to revamp that for some time now.

[lildragon]

It's definitely a solid upgrade. Looks like the 2011 suite is 'sweet' all around. Now the only prob I have it using too many apps! HA! And I'm even loving Mudbox even tho it still lacks lasso selection tools, it has a nice feel to it.

[ReplicA]

Tried the viewport canvas thing yesterday, and couldn't get the map I wanted to edit to show in the viewport. It was annoying, but I was quite distracted, and I'm gonna have to try it again. I absolutely hate the new material editor. It's ugly, takes up too much space, and is overly complicated for no reason. I much prefer the old one, it was simple, and easy to use, didn't take up the entire screen to use, and wasn't nearly as complicated. I know this opinion is probably based on the fact I use 3 textures, and that's it, so having this ugly interface, and overly complicated design to add those 3 textures is a pain. Gimme back the old way!!

And for me, just like 2010, this version takes forever to load up. Takes about 5-7 minutes to load, which drives me nuts. I don't know, this entire release so far seems overly complicated, and leaning towards maya because of it. I'm just happy most everyone I work for uses older versions of max, so I can stick with Max 9.

[Wynn]

Yeah I can see why some wouldn't like the new editor. I like the new editor though mainly because I'm usually filling up the slots in the old editor quickly and I like being able to visually seei all the inputs for my materials all at once without having to dig through layer by layer. You get anything more than a few levels deep and you start wasting your time trying figure out what you're doing.

The nice thing though ReplicA is that you can switch back! In the material editor click on the Modes menu and then Compact Material Editor

Yeah I've noticed that it takes a while to load like 2010 does. Kind of weird.

[BigJohn]

The material editor is a choice. You can hit a button up top and it reverts back to the old material editor. Which of course, I did right away. Dunno what the big fuzz is with nodes... it's the same thing

[Ace-Angel]

Max still loads under 30 seconds for me, strangely enough, it's Max 9 and lower which take ages to load.

[dustinbrown]

It's interesting, while I always keep my Adobe products up to date with the latest version, I make a point of staying about a year behind on Max. Experience has shown me that if I wait about a year after release, it will have enough patches and hot fixes available to be a solid program. When I was younger I was Mr Early Adopter...not so much anymore, been burned too many times. Glad 2011 is out, now I can finally upgrade to 2010 :)

Eh... this doesn't seem all that interesting. Is it just me, or does it seem like they're merging Maya and Max slowly? I saw some of Max's skinning tools in Maya 2011

All I can say in response to that is that I'm currently learning Maya after using Max for about 9 years. I'm feeling LOTS of disparity between the programs right now. Maya feels very technical and rigid. Max, by comparison, feels like it's much more dummy proof (made for artists), so you can quickly and relatively easily bang something out. Now...I'm not a script guy, and I've heard it said time and again that the real power in Maya is in MEL and how customizable it is. I go cross eyed and faint and nearly swallow my tongue when I see code, so I can't speak to that end.

-Dustin

[Cenelder]

i hate the new Caddy (caddies) instead of the dialogue boxes of ol'. Has anyone figured out how to revert to the dialogue boxes? man, do i hate having to mouse over to read what each "caddy" does. What a POS design decision.

Thats my only grip with max 2011. but, it is so infuriating, it makes me wanna continue to use 2009, and just boot up 2011 for texture painting.

[crazyfool]

All I can say in response to that is that I'm currently learning Maya after using Max for about 9 years. I'm feeling LOTS of disparity between the programs right now. Maya feels very technical and rigid. Max, by comparison, feels like it's much more dummy proof (made for artists), so you can quickly and relatively easily bang something out. Now...I'm not a script guy, and I've heard it said time and again that the real power in Maya is in MEL and how customizable it is. I go cross eyed and faint and nearly swallow my tongue when I see code, so I can't speak to that end.

-Dustin

haha thats what I think of Max after using maya for about 5 years, mel scriptings not too difficult and thats what technical artists are for anyway :) I gotta use max more though as that seems the software of choice down here,

looks like a solid upgrade, alot of comparisons to maya in there though, Probably the best thing in there for me is the new selection additions. Saving out older versions is pretty cool instead of editing the file in wordpad or whatever, very good for production purposes.

[BigJohn]

The thing that kills Maya for me is that it's so weak out of the box. With Max I install practically no addons. It's just extremely powerful as it is.

When they added Pelt unwrapping to Max, that's when I officially stopped using Maya. I don't think Maya can do Pelt mapping even today, but I may be wrong on that.

And now with viewport canvas... forgetbout'it

[crazyfool]

haha I hate UVing in Max, maya's got relax and unfold now which help alot and when combined with roadkill theres no contest, I think once you get your custom shelf setup in maya so you got all your tools ready its awesome, I just miss the outliner from maya and all the attribute/translation editors, not a big fan of maxs command panel shelf stacking 23 clicks to do something workflow and the inclusion of smoothing/nurb conversion in maya with the number keys is awesome for high poly modelling. the more I use max the more I will love it :)

Max is a great modelling tool but I jumped over to maya when I started taking it all serious as I knew alot of companies were using it but as I said everywhere seems to be using max now so I gotta go back haha. Im still pretty good with max but nothing a bit of google cant help me with :D Max is a great software Im just not 100% used to it yet, ctrl and shift habits die hard lol :D

[shadowmonkey]

BigJohn I know that script your on about for poly painitng its called Advanced Painter.Just in case like me your computer cant run 2010 or 2011 cos its old this is the script.

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/advanced-painter

I wanted so much to try out 2011 material editor I think they have called it Slate because I cant stand Max standard editor.It so clunky and confusing when using complex shaders with lots of elements.Why has it taken them so long to do this in the first place if you ask me?I rember using wavefront explore 10 years ago having node bassed material editor and a shit hot IPR.Look at node joe its been around for while unfortunatly its not free.

3Ds Maya? god I hope not it will be a frankenstien with inhereted faults from both programs.I have just started using 2009 was on Max8 havnt noticed much apart from the new layers in material again dam confusing due to its crapy material editor and that navigation wheel and veiw port button?come on why even bother I found it anoying and useless and dissable it straight away.They havnt even sorted out there unwrap tools, pelt mapping tool is a joke spline mapping was a good Idead,roadkill is so simple and far better.

ReplicA yeh agree with each new upgrade max becomes slower and slower my max 8 was so much faster than 2009.I dont know what 9 was like I heard its was very buggy.I did like the new customising interface with 2011 especialy hidinh the clunky side editing tab :)

[BigJohn]

I guess that's the ultimate argument that keeps popping up. That once you personalize and customize them, they're perfect. Now that I think about it, my Max is personalized quite a bit. The only difference is that I don't need to use any 3rd party stuff with Max, and with Maya you do.

If you've ever used Headus UVLayout, I have Max set up so that it does that exact same workflow, only all within max using the Unwrap UVW modifier. I haven't even used stuff like Headus or Roadkill in ages.

And really, I customized it enough (using no 3rd party software) that I use something like 7 keyboard keys and that's it. No need to even use their shelves and whatnot.

It's a matter of taste I suppose.

[crazyfool]

yea Im looking forward to getting stuck in :D

[Cenelder]

2011 is the buggiest piece of junk ever. Im going back to 2009 until they patch it... literally unusable unless you feel like restarting it ever 15 minutes (and it takes about a minute to boot up because its sluggish as crap)

-My textures randomly go black... so i cant see my textures. Only way to fix this is to restart max

-Turbosmooth sometimes doesnt work on a model. Took me 30+ minutes to figure out you have to convert to edible mesh and back to edible poly because max corrupts your mesh somehow.

-It CANNOT render 2048x2048 textures on any of our 32 bit machines at work here... completely unnacceptable.

-Those stupid "caddy" windows take 1-2 seconds to pop up... teleport all around your screen, and are the WORST design decision i have ever witnessed. What a load of horse ****

Overall, dont even touch 2011 until it gets fixed. Stick to 2010 or 2009 IMO. The texture painting isnt worth it.

[BigJohn]

Not to get into an argument here, but I haven't had any of those issues you're describing. I actually like 2011 quite a lot.

I'm not sure I can explain it...

[kanga]

Max 2010 forced me to update my workstation because it ran like a pig on my old machine. Now being the cheapo bastard that I am I hadnt updated my rig for years Went out and got a bottom of the line 64 bit win7 thrown together by a local shop. Max flies on it. Software is way more expensive than hardware. You will find max is optimized for cards over the 500mb mark. I am wondering what you are doing with 32 bit systems at your work!

I also have a 32 bit version of 2011 on an older laptop and it is faster than 2010. Only thing I have noticed is the newer versions of max dont much like dense wireframes in the viewport, but 2011 has improved there. Realtime rendering rox and I am very curious how canvas willl be. Polydraw and cat are a blast.