Main Competition #4: The Wii Challenge: GameStars!

[FredH]

-


Get ready for GameArtisans.org's final competition for 2007!
Competition #4: "The Wii Challenge: GameStars!!"

http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/extras/comp4_image.jpg


Read the brief - Here - (http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/competitions/4/readbrief/index.htm) and then check out the prizes - Here - (http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/competitions/4/prizes/index.htm) (will be confirmed between November 26th and 30th)

Good Luck to all those who enter!:cool:




~

[YdoUwant2know]

I love this idea. It was worth staying up to find out what it was.
Now off to the drawing board.

[Chasarsis]

Awesome, this looks like it'll be fun for all

Also:
Additionally, you may choose any time period to depict your character within, therefore, a fantasy based Zelda or a futuristic themed Metroid, is all good

Given the context, I think those backwards :p

[Jackablade]

Aww Fred, I just spent an hour hunting down armour designs for the mini comp =/ Ah well, a little extra reference for the library never goes to waist I suppose.

I'm not sure about the unlimited polys for gear business, particularly for items that'll always be directly attached to the character - pouches, scabbards and whatnot as well as weapons. We had a lot of confusion about that sort of thing during the Dominance War 2 if I remember rightly and it seems like an unnecessary addition. Given that 5000 polys is already a rather high polycount for a Wii character, wouldn't you be better to include everything within the 5000 polygon count? The fact that pets and additional characters have to fall within the 5000 polys but vehicles and guns do not is kind of inconsistant too.

[monkeyboy]

Good onya Fred, you're a good man!

[TryForce]

you frreaaacking ROCK!!!!

[FredH]

Jackablade - I made the character 5000 tris because I figure the extra polies would go a long way in letting people make smooth and round cartoony characters. About the gear, yeah, you might be right on this one. I have updated the rules as follows:)

Optional: Unlimited polies and texture sheets for weapons and 1 small vehicle (choices are limited to: jetpack, skateboard, bike, hoverbike, skis, missile, scooter, surfboard, and snowboard)

[Asmuel]

I think you brief specifications are getting better and better Fred, as far as rules and regulations go. Great job :)

My only concern is 512 is so tight. I think 2 X 512 sheets would be great. Its not too high, but our work will look a bit more crisp come display time. Just my thoughts.

[Jackablade]

Yeah, that sounds better, Fred, nice one.

[YdoUwant2know]

.....1 small vehicle (choices are limited to: jetpack, skateboard, bike, hoverbike, skis, missile, scooter, surfboard, and snowboard)

While i understand the need to control the extras, in a competition that is stressing creativity, is it really a good idea to limit what we can create as a vehicle?

[-JL-]

Interesting... This should be fun!

Thanks Fred! :)

[Mike_inel]

Finally! I'm dying waiting for this!!! This is gonna be sooooo cool!
Oh, ya... Can the character be serious type but still unrealistic?
Probably something like this? Link (http://mikeinel.deviantart.com/art/Mechanical-Girl-70514602) Only simplified?

Edit:
Now that i think about it... Does Wii support normal maps?

[free-willy]

woohoo,this is gonna be an awesome comp to enter.Not a huge fan of the unlimited polys part but i guess just because you could potentially use a million polys doesnt mean you have to use that many!

[butt_sahib]

Yeah excellent :D

but i do agree with ydouwant2know about the constraits in the vehicle department.IM sure you have your reasons-but what are they exactly? HUH!? :p

@paul:
Finally a contest JUST for your expertise ;)

[funkdelic]

damn what a nice comp!!

thx man =]

[Jackablade]

Does Wii support normal maps?It does, but the limited texture memory means they need to be used pretty sparingly. Realistically, I think if you had characters in your game with 6 layers of textures in their shaders you'd be limiting what else you could have on screen. Thats ok though, its not like the characters we're making here will ever be dropped into a game engine.

[Dario]

excellent! count me in this time. :)

[b1ll]

Ohh Thats a fun idea. tempting.. NOT!!!

[indian_boy]

damn... i think i wanna go for it.....

say... theres nothing against violence and gore right?
cuz k i know that the Wii is for family fun... but a recreation of a cutsey manhunt 2.... stuff like that allowed?
thisll be the first GA comp i'll be taking part in... hopefully lol.

[zann]

Oh man tis title is soooooooo interesting :excite:
I wish i could squeeze time for this :o

[peter_john]

sweet... looking forward to this!

[ryuju]

hopefully ill be able to get this in and the mini comp and im working on a side project... too many things to do so little time. Cant wait to see what people come up with.

[FredH]

Mike-inel --> I am a little hesitant on allowing a serious anime styled character, but lately, Nintendo has been making a lot of these type of games. So, ok, it's fine:)

b1ll --> You just had to jump in and say that didn't you? lol

YdoUwant2know/butt_sahib --> Yup, there was a need for a limit, otherwise, people would make full blown cars, tanks and whatnot, and then you wouldn't even see the character. Hope you guys will learn to love these choices:p

indian_boy, violence and gore in a wii game? What type of GameStar are you thinking of?:eek:

[andrei313]

I also have a question. Since I'm making a baseball player I would like to include in the final image a bat, a ball and a machine that shoots balls (not sure how it's called). I don't really care if the bat is considered the "weapon" or if that machine can be called a "vehicle"... I'd just like to know if I can spend my 5000 just on the player and use as much as I need for the rest of the "environment".
Thanks.

[FredH]

yes, don't include the bat, ball and machine in your character's max. You can count the machine as the environment:thumb:

[East]

I have to say I'm completely uninterested in this competition. Which is why I think I have to participate! I need to grow as an artist, and I think challenging myself like this is probably what I need.

Time to uninstall CoD4 and lend my copy of Mass Effect to a friend..

[Amethyst]

East, you are very funny......

[indian_boy]

aww... lol j/k.
well oookay. lets see.
i meant along the lines of samus aran having weapons and link and zelda having swords etc... not like.. dripping blood types lol

[brian_h]

Quick question...can you enter both the concept and 3d parts...do the concept and then model it for the 3d section? Just curious.

B

[shadowbreeze]

"Universal Guidelines - No realism."

oooooooooooh man, this will be a challenge, i don't do cutesy as a rule:lol:

but it will be a nice calm before the storm of the DW:D

[Mike_inel]

Yay, thank you Fredh! You da man!
I think i won't have any normal maps for this...

[FredH]

mike -> learn normal maps! This is your perfect oppertunity.. unless you already know how to do it?:D

Brian -> Yes, you can enter both the concept and 3d categories, but if you do, they can't be the same. Each must be a unique entry.

[Yung]

I am like East, not interested at all in this competition, yet I felt the urge to join in.......

[East]

Probably something like this? Link (http://mikeinel.deviantart.com/art/Mechanical-Girl-70514602) Only simplified?

Really cool design :) Just something you should think about before you start working on it. Since the character is supposed to be created uniquely for this contest, you might want to clear this concept with Fred before you start working, as right now it says you uploaded it 23h 35m ago to deviantart, and Fred made this forum announcement post some odd 20h ago.

These are things that have been known to come back and disqualify people in the final stages of prior competitions (not necessarily here on GA, but generally). I might get the maths wrong, tho, as I'm currently suffering from a bit of insomnia :rolleyes:

[WhiteGuardian]

FredH. Where's the link to submit the entry for Concept Art? I just see the 3D entry.

This will be the greatest challenge to close 2007. :thumb:

[QuikBE]

I think I'm with East on this one but it sounds kind of fun actually i have a couple of projects I need to finish first. As far as the no realism goes Twilight princes and Metroid are fairly close to are characters inspired by wither of these allowed?

[Mike_inel]

@FredH: I dunno, 512x512 is somewhat small to make details... And normal maps are meant for details... I'm aiming for a kingdom hearts style of texturing...
@East: I did said "only simplified"... I'm not sure if i'll use the design, but if so, there'll be a lot of changes since i'm limited to 5k tris... Thanks btw!

[bakpao]

nice.. challenge..

[goffskullz]

does the character need to be a hero as your examples show, or could it be a villian like bowser or ganondorf?

[East]

@East: I did said "only simplified"... I'm not sure if i'll use the design, but if so, there'll be a lot of changes since i'm limited to 5k tris... Thanks btw!
I'm glad you took it the way it was intended. I was a bit worried I was coming off as trying to sink your entry or something. Just would hate to see someone having to restart after having done plenty of work :)

[EDIT] 512x512 textures. Bit of a challenge for me as I'm pretty bad at optimising my UV space.. Good learning experience, though :]

[Slaine]

Is there a deadline to join up? I think I'd like to enter, but I just need to come up with a good idea first. :)

[Vailias]

:P you whiners.
512X512 is huge, especially for a stylized character.
You just put the detail where it NEEDS to be rather than everywhere. Think of your character in game. Most of these are 3rd person games, and your character is going to occupy a relatively small portion of the screen real estate, aside from cut scenes perhaps, so put detail where it will be shown in the cuts and texture things with larger blocks of color.
Mario, pikachu, sonic, etc could likely do with a 128. ;)

[bb0x]

This sounds like a nice comp.... now if I only got inspired..

[FredH]

WhiteGuardian --> you can join either the 3d challenge or concept art challenge here: http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/competitions/4/join.html. If you are already entered in the 3d category, just press on the concept art category to enter that one.

QuikBE --> This comp is meant as an easy and relaxed comp for the holidays:) Everyone needs a fun character to brighten up there portfolio.. who knows, you might even love what you end up creating. Personally, I entered a comp that I wasn't to fond of in the past, but then I got this character here, (http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1141) and I ended up really liking her. It was really fun to create:)

goffskullz --> Well, your character needs to be a gamestar.. which is usually a hero. But, if you would like to try and make an evil gamestar, this could work too.

Mike_inel --> 512 shoudl be more than enough for a normal mapped cartoon character. Learn to love it!:inocent:

Slaine --> Nope, there is no deadline for entering this challenge. But, don't jump in on the last day... nobody likes hidden ninja entries.

[monkeyboy]

Hey Fred, I was thinking of (maybe) doing a kart character...would a small go-kart be okay as an 'extra' vehicle? Totally okay if it isn't dude - I'm just brainstorming at the moment.

[BuroKun]

here is something for all of you guys, It could help for inspiration.
SSB Characters (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/index.html)

[Asmuel]

Hmmm, the "does he/she look like a wii character" stipulation for marking is kinda confusing me. So does it have to be a simple character with hamburger shoes and flat colours (like yoshi)? or can we do something different?

Thanks for the ref Burokun :)

[Jackablade]

What they're going for (or my interpretation at least) is the really iconic, mascot typed characters, the typical ones you see in Nintendo first party games. Something that'll translate equally well to a 32*32 GBA sprite as a normal mapped Wii character or some tripped out artist on Something Awful drawing a completely distorted interpretation.

I went for a bit of a walk around the shops today, trying to figure out exactly what makes an enduring character. I looked at cartoon characters, comics and video games. Its hard to know. The best characters always have a strong silhouette and well considered, contrasting colours, but beyond that? I guess I'd be a rich man if I knew that magic formula. There are some characters that just jump out at you. Superman in particular can be seen and recognised halfway down a shelf of comic books while other characters that seem to use the same design principles recede into the mess of art.

Its going to be an interesting contest. I think most of the work is going to be in pre-production trying to work out what works and what doesn't. The art itself is unlikely to take all that long.

[FredH]

monkeyboy --> Ah, a go-cart, that's a good one. I have added it to the list of possibilities. Yes, it would be fine.

Burokun --> Great Link!

Asmuel --> What Jackablade said. I agree with him. Coming up with an idea is tough, but making that actual entry is extremely easy. Good Luck.

[Oki-Wan]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, an animator trying to enhance my modeling and texturing skills.
I've read the challenge brief and guideline pages and still need to know whether I can use:
- any 3D software of my choice
- my avatar character (a cartoony doggy) as the entry.

Thanks in advance.

[brian_h]

Is it just me or is the concept entry viewing section busted at the moment...there are posts for the 3d side but nothing for the concept side and I know I posted and entry...just thought I'd mention it if it hasn't been noticed yet.

B

[Jackablade]

I like your cartoony doggy.

The objective of these competitions is to learn new skills as much as it is trying to win a prize or do better than the other members. Given that your doggy is already modelled, you'll be needing to make something new.

On the strength of your avatar, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Tully]

Fred, are the concept people bound to the vehicle-types rule? I had an idea for something that I think would fit the spirit of the comp but not quite the letter of that rule.

[Marcus Dublin]

I don't think concept artists are bound to the same rule set the 3d guys are when it comes to vehicles. Vehicles I don't believe are a prerequisite so If you want to have a vehicle then go for it, and if you'd rather not have a vehicle then you don't have to have one. Of course this is if I understood your question correctly.:)

Fred, are the concept people bound to the vehicle-types rule? I had an idea for something that I think would fit the spirit of the comp but not quite the letter of that rule.

[EVIL]

Oke, here is a little rant about the wii

The graphics processor (code-named "Hollywood") will use an ATI chipset running at 243Mhz with 3 MB of texture memory. It might also have 32 shader pipelines -- 16 fewer than the Xbox 360. However, the Nintendo GPU is rumored to run at 500 million triangles per second (100 million sustained) -- roughly equivalent to the Xbox 360. It will also be able to handle 50 billion shader operations per second, which is about the same as the 360 as well.Meaning that 5000 polys is a pretty normal polycount for a main character and that the Wii hasn’t even been pushed in recent games. But the way the Wii handles shaders (it does not have things like shader models etc, atleast not in the sence of pc and xbox games) makes it more difficult for developers to make efficient use of the power.

Its basicly to hard of a system to program for, in order to make quick bucks, from titles that use the wii's full graphical power. unlike the 360 where programming for it, is relative easy so you can quickly get a graphical intensive game out the door for some quick bucks.

All in all, It’s easier to develop multiple quick casual games for the wii with hardly any graphical tricks and 6 to 12 month’s developing time each (the system is ideal for it). Then to create big blockbuster graphical intensive games for the system, which takes years to develop.
Take a look at Mario party, its up to its 8th title now and they made millions for easy quick games that basically use a very small percentage graphical power.

But what I am trying to say is don’t mistake the wii to be a very weak console just because most wii developers are trying to make “Easy” (a large part of the wii market actually want's those casual games) money

The wii has the potential to give the 360 a run for its money if a developer would have the time and recourses to spend for it.


So 5000 poly’s is a fair and realistic count.


anyway, to get to a question I wanted to ask hehe

Its its ok for me to team up with a friend, one doing to concept, the other the 3d model?

------

edit: Oh this makes me think up an idea that might be nice for the people who don't like large rant post's

A ubb code: that makes a text field collapse and when someone wants to read it it just clicks on the collapsed text field and it pops up revealing the text.

So you would have something like this
Oke, here is a little rant about the wii [...] Click to read

[andrei313]

Its its ok for me to team up with a friend, one doing to concept, the other the 3d model?


I think the rules say you can't.

Joint entries are prohibitted for this challenge. Only one artist may work on one entry.

PS: I think you misspelled "prohibited" on the rules page :)

[brian_h]

"All in all, It’s easier to develop multiple quick casual games for the wii with hardly any graphical tricks and 6 to 12 month’s developing time each (the system is ideal for it). Then to create big blockbuster graphical intensive games for the system, which takes years to develop.
Take a look at Mario party, its up to its 8th title now and they made millions for easy quick games that basically use a very small percentage graphical power."

Welcome to the mind of Nintendo...make it quick, make it easy, make accessible to the masses...then make it in the millions. lol. Not a terrible original model really but a consistently sucessful one if you can get over the "figure out what the masses want" hurdle...then just make that...alot. I love Nintendo...they get the fact that you don't have to beat people over the head with gritty graphics to entertain them. They have just about worked themselves into the same place as Pixar for movies at this point.

B

[Kalango]

just pissed myself...LOVED IT!

[EVIL]

I think the rules say you can't.



PS: I think you misspelled "prohibited" on the rules page :)

Well I asked this because I remember the rule form the naruto challenge and mop and tully teamed up

[FredH]

Oki-Wan -> Yes, you can use any 3d software for this challenge. As for your dog, I am afraid you can't use it since it was already made before this challenge started. You woudl have to come up with something new specifically for this challenge. By the way, first post? Welcome to GameArtisans:)

Brian --> I believe the concept section is working fine. Just be sure to enter a title for your entry because it takes two things to start your thread; a thumbnail and a title. Hope this works.

Evil --> andrei answered your question. This time around, no teams. Furthermore, if you enter both categories, you can't use your concept for your 3d entry. You must make an entirely new concept from scratch.

[zabuza2k]

i have only found a bad referenc from link ;P and so small have a guy a good referenc from link ??

[BuroKun]

I was just thinking, remember that SSB game that some of us were working on, but it died? well this comp seems like the perfect time to bring that idea back. I know that a SSB game with all of our characters in it would be awesome, and great for everyones portfolio. I know It would be a lot of work, but I am willing to give it all I got. Just throwing that out there. I know last time we tried this, we couldn't really do much because there was only one coder so we would need to find someone willing to dedicate there time to that.

[QuikBE]

Don't ya hate it when you have a concept and you realize where the idea came from? Now I have to brainstorm again. Ohh well I actually like the concepting phase.

[Oki-Wan]

Oki-Wan -> Yes, you can use any 3d software for this challenge. As for your dog, I am afraid you can't use it since it was already made before this challenge started. You woudl have to come up with something new specifically for this challenge. By the way, first post? Welcome to GameArtisans:)

I like your cartoony doggy.

The objective of these competitions is to learn new skills as much as it is trying to win a prize or do better than the other members. Given that your doggy is already modelled, you'll be needing to make something new.

On the strength of your avatar, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.


@Jackablade, FredH: Thanks, actually I just modelled the head, the rest are not finished yet. But that's okay, I have some other ideas on the character; will submit one of them as the entry soon.

[TryForce]

I was just thinking, remember that SSB game that some of us were working on, but it died? well this comp seems like the perfect time to bring that idea back. I know that a SSB game with all of our characters in it would be awesome, and great for everyones portfolio. I know It would be a lot of work, but I am willing to give it all I got. Just throwing that out there. I know last time we tried this, we couldn't really do much because there was only one coder so we would need to find someone willing to dedicate there time to that.

i still got the base of it, though the coder wont come online as he probably wont work anymore with us. It was on Cgchat.

I wont work on it alone though. :o

[Jackablade]

I just stumbled across probably the best reference one could possibly have for this comp - a book I'd forgotten I even had - Creating Characters with Personality by Tom Bancroft, who did character design on a whole bunch of Disney movies, amongst others.
http://www.amazon.com/Creating-Characters-Personality-Animation-Graphic/dp/0823023494/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196077586&sr=1-1
If you can find this anywhere, its ideal for designing the sorts of characters that are needed for this comp.

[Lfs]

Well I have a question.. I'm planning to enter this myself and currently I'm doing sketches.. Is it ok to do a cowbow, anime style ;)? just curious. on sketches it looks a bit realism lol but the final shots should make him look like a sweet anime char :)

[Kalango]

i still got the base of it, though the coder wont come online as he probably wont work anymore with us. It was on Cgchat.

I wont work on it alone though. :o

Actualy i think this could work better with gameartisans forums...and this comp just make it easier.

[TryForce]

Actualy i think this could work better with gameartisans forums...and this comp just make it easier.

If someone has a one or two coders who will freely join that project as most of the community would like to help out this project i wouldnt mind. though it would have start like all over. Just that one envoirment is allready Finished.

whatever.

[bb0x]

That SSB thingy that you guys want to do sounds awesome.
Tho' it is allot of work.

How to join?:approve::D

[Jackablade]

Its a nice idea, but unless you get people to build their characters on a generic rig, I don't think theres any real way you could possibly pull it off. Even if you did use a base skeleton, which would severely restrict the types of characters that we could use, trying to get 20-30 (perhaps even more) models created by different artists of varying backgrounds and skillsets animated in a game engine would be a complete nightmare.
You might be able to drop them all into a scene without animation, but that does kinda defeats the purpose.
A nice group shot composed and rendered out of a 3d app would be a more sane thing to attempt.

[FredH]

Lfs --> Yes, an anime style cowbow sounds fine:thumb:

[EVIL]

what are the limitations in stylization? Can I for example create a character with stylized proportions and geometry but with realistic materials?

edit: oh an does it have to be cute cuddly and nice? or can it have a more serious "deeper" nature

[Asmuel]

We don't get unlimited polies and junk for backpacks and stuff right? just weapons and vehicles? I thought saw the word backpack in there at one point but maybe it was my imagination.

[Masakari]

Hum... another cartoony contest, seems there have been a lot lately. I don't really like it, but i think i'll participate just to practice this kind of stuff.

As for the SSB idea, it would be wicked cool, but Jackablade hit it right.

[Kwakkie]

edit: oh an does it have to be cute cuddly and nice? or can it have a more serious "deeper" nature
Thats a "hard" question, maybe you should specify your "points" better :lol:

[Marcus Dublin]

Marcus: Yes you can use whatever materials you like, Nintendo did it with production shots for the new Mario. To answer your second question, well I would keep it less like Silent Hill, Gears, and more towards Metroid. I'd say Metroids level of seriousness is pretty much the barometer to aim for.

Evil: what are the limitations in stylization? Can I for example create a character with stylized proportions and geometry but with realistic materials?

edit: oh an does it have to be cute cuddly and nice? or can it have a more serious "deeper" nature[/QUOTE]

[b1ll]

You know what, Now that i think about it. IM IN!

[FredH]

B1ll, impossible! I don't believe you... You have a reputation to keep!

Asmuel --> Yes, at first, backpack and armor was mentioned in the rules, but then the rules got revised a few hours after the launch after a few suggestions were made. So yup, you only get unlimited polies for weapons and small vehicles.

[livio3d]

ssbm is one of the best reference for actual nintendo games for me, aniway i think for this type of game models the best effect is to use only albedo and max one specular texture (for metal part), and a good shader whit rimlight effect,
here i found a very high resolution immage of a ssb "Zelda" characte to share (other character on some site)
http://www.multiplayer.it/show.php?id=16052&img=145

and pls forgive my bad english :)

[Slaine]

I have another question: I made a thumbnail portrait for my website sometime ago (just a character's face). I thought it fit the competition theme, and I'd like to turn it into a full-fledged character. Would this be against the rules at all?

Particularly this part: "Your entry can not be based on any existing character. It must be original and specifically created for this challenge."

[yakblat]

Its a nice idea, but unless you get people to build their characters on a generic rig, I don't think theres any real way you could possibly pull it off. Even if you did use a base skeleton, which would severely restrict the types of characters that we could use, trying to get 20-30 (perhaps even more) models created by different artists of varying backgrounds and skillsets animated in a game engine would be a complete nightmare.
You might be able to drop them all into a scene without animation, but that does kinda defeats the purpose.
A nice group shot composed and rendered out of a 3d app would be a more sane thing to attempt.

We've made some pretty crazy looking chars with generic rigs, so it isn't impossible. You just need someone to work with the rig's properties to add or change parts to fit the model.

We also had a small demo going and getting characters with base moves to load properly wasn't a real big problem. If you had a ton of specials for each character then it gets complicated for the programmer, I'd imagine. However, if you start with a smaller scope, say giving them all 2 punches, 2 kicks and a jump or what have you, you're better off getting somewhere faster.

At any rate, if anyone does do a project like this, I'd be more than willing to animate. I love it, and could use more practice ^_~

[FredH]

Slaine --> Can we see the thumbnail in question? Maybe it's ok...
You can send it to me at fredh [at] dominancewar [dot] com

[typhus22]

hey just out of curiosity but did poopinmouth make a file for the light setup?

[Jackablade]

Any word on when we're likely to see the results, Fred?

[Euphronios]

I think you'll get the standard 3d Realms answer:

"When it's done. . ."

[toma_li]

how many final entries were submitted anywho?