Foot In the Door Tactic

[dustinbrown]

I've spent the last year really focusing on anatomy and I'm staring to add work to my folio that's character modeling specific. However, having watched the job market closely over the course of that year, I'm acutely aware that for every character artist job opening there are around ten environment artist openings. It's enough to raise anyone's eyebrows. Do you guys think there's anything wrong with trying to get an environment artist job as a means to an end? Meaning try to get a job as an environment artist with the hope/intention that eventually I'll be able to make the shift to working on characters? It's not like I'd be miserable modeling environments in the interim, so I would absolutely put my best foot forward if I got hired on to do env work.

I can see it from both sides. From my perspective I'm just trying to do anything I can to hedge the competition and get my foot in the door. It's a dog eat dog world. But if I were passionate about environment art, I might begrudge someone taking up a seat I might want just so they can worm their way into working on characters. I don't want to be a dick or do anything unethical, so I'm putting it to you guys for advice.

Further more, how necessary is it to have an environment-specific portfolio to get an environment modeling job? Don't take the next question as demeaning in any way - it comes from genuine curiosity. Is it really that big of a stretch of the imagination that, if someone can make really good looking characters, they could do also do well at modeling environments and props? I'm trying to determine if I can keep focusing on making characters, even with the intent of applying for environment jobs, or if I should put my character work aside and make some environments.

[wormsign]

I say do what you gotta do to get a job man, any job- there's nothing wrong with that- especially considering that's what your competition's doing.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with going for an env modeler's position as a means of working up to a character position. In my experience character artists are pretty much at the top of the food chain just below the director and the lead respectively. This is because instead of having to create something static that just looks good, it also has to withstand the rigors of animating, quite possibly to extremes that some first timers aren't quite prepared for (myself included). I've met a few people who ended up going the opposite direction of what you're considering (though not by choice) originally being hired as character artists, then being bumped down to environment stuff when their characters didn't pass the stress test. Didn't mean they weren't talented artists, but their stuff simply looked good- didn't animate good.

There is a bit of a difference between the two though. When making characters and props you're most often working with a dedicated uv layout, whereas when working in env's proper you're more using scratch UV methods- in my case it's a bit hard for me to wrap my head around as it requires a bit more pre-planning than I'm used to. Also, you have to take collision into account as well as modularity- as most assets will be used and reused elsewhere by the worldbuilders, sometimes in ways you didn't originally intend. IMO both disciplines require a bit of specialization and flexibility in their own rites, sometimes there's overlap, sometimes not.

Hopefully some of this was coherent enough to make sense. Good luck!

[LowRez]

Further more, how necessary is it to have an environment-specific portfolio to get an environment modeling job? Don't take the next question as demeaning in any way - it comes from genuine curiosity. Is it really that big of a stretch of the imagination that, if someone can make really good looking characters, they could do also do well at modeling environments and props? I'm trying to determine if I can keep focusing on making characters, even with the intent of applying for environment jobs, or if I should put my character work aside and make some environments.

I think it's important you can show your ability to make a good environment. It requires some different skills to character modelling. And just cause you can do characters well doesnt mean you'll be able to drop into doing really good environments just like that.


Also If someone applied to an environment position with a character art portfolio, I'd look at it and say "hmmm nice work but is his heart in making environments" I'd look specifically for environment portfolios, for people who want to be making awesome environments cause it's fun and challenging. To get an environment job with a character portfolio that portfolio needs to be amazing and if thats the case you'll be able to get a character position.


If you want to get a job as an environment artist, don't look at is as taking a step down from characters look at it as a sidestep that requires different skills and a suitable portfolio.


Aslo for your own piece of mind, do you even enjoy making environments? cause its like any work, the more you enjoy it, the better you'll be at it. If the answers No then maybe focus on your characters and make sure your good enough to get the character job.

Oh and I disagree with Wormsign - Character artists are just artists who are good at characters. I'd consider them bang on level with envrionment artist, not on some wierd pedestal somehwere just below art directors? Environment art is complex if not more so than character art due to it's scale and required continuity, interactive and often destrucable props and buildings these days. Would modern warfare be so good without it's amazing environments that keep the scene in place, it requires a team all pulling together to make something so large look so good from start too end, while maybe 2 or 3 people work on a character from start to finish. (sorry I just find this precieved view annoying)


Environment art is easier to get into cause of the quantiy required, but just as hard to master...

[crazyfool]

I wish you luck dude but from personal experience its super hard, as LowRez says they just dont know where your heart lies. I love pretty much all aspects of game art, (I have worked in concept art, environments, animation, VFX and characters and loved every single one of them) but companies dont see it as a dude that loves game art, they see a character artist that cant find work and is trying his hand at environments, which sucks. If you are going for entry level then its not that much of an issue as they are just looking for potential over anything else but still they want someone devoted to that field.

If you try the environment route you gotta completely balance your folio so they know you are serious about environments, good thing about going from characters to environments though is you can bring that little bit of life to a scene with ease and your colour palette and attention to detail will be good but you still gotta pick up on the technical side with shaders and level design and stuff.

and character artists are not above environment artists in any way, shape or form, they're just one cog in the game development process like everyone else.

[Guedin]

Hi DustinBrown.

Actually, I'm in the position you described. I'd love to be character artist but I chose a job of environment artist to get a feet in the industry. Where I'm working, I heard a lot of people who started as environment artist and switched to character artist, so yeah I guess it's possible.
I'm just starting so I don't have a lot of experience yet but I think if you want to switch, you need to show to your bosses that you are as good as character artist in place in the company so when a jop is open, it'll be easier for you to get it, since the company knows who you are, how you are working, etc...
However, you have to understand it's really hard to train your character skills when you are an environment artist, since all the day you'll be making environment, and it can be hard to open ZBrush or Max/Maya ... etc when you back at home to work on character.

I need to agree with LowRez, I don't think character artist are better artist, or perceived as better artist in a company. Like he said, skills are really different, and it takes a lot to master making environment. On the other hand, character artist are often paid more than environment artist, I don't really know why, but that's maybe why some people think they are above the rest.

I hope it'll be usefull, good luck with your project

[dustinbrown]

Thanks for the awesome replies, guys. Yeah, I have to admit I'm kind of hesitant to switch to working on an environment portfolio. Not because I don't find it interesting - far from it - only because taking the time to learn how to properly use the grid to make tileable assets and how to use your UV space properly for environment work, and all of those other little technical environment-specific skills are going to take time. That's time I'm not developing my character folio.

BUT ... that character-to-environment job opening ratio really f*cks with my head. It keeps distracting me, making me wonder if I'd be better off, in the short term, going the environment rout for now, just to play the numbers game and get in.

[BigJohn]

Yeah man, that's the eternal dilemma. I've been pondering this for a long, long time. What I've been doing though is just work on both. It definitely hurts my characters, cause I spend time doing non-character work. But at this point I'm trying anything.

As to whether it pays off in the end or not, I don't know. I'll come back and tell you when/if I get hired :)

[devoid]

Coming from an environment artist who moved to characters, i have a bias saying there's nothing wrong with going for it. I did environments for years before I got the chance to do characters, and for me its not that one is higher or not, it's the fact that I was so much more passionate about characters than environments.

I think you absolutely need an environmental portfolio to get a job as an environmental artist. People get passed on all the time because they don't have the right stuff for the job they are applying for.

With that said, you don't need to go crazy with making a full world. A strong piece, say a building or street scene, in engine is a good start. Also don't overlook the power of props. They are fast to build for a portfolio, and you can polish the hell out of them a lot faster than a full scene. Banging out a few of them while you work on your next character is a hedging the bets route. The 50 cal on your site would be a good place to start.


Good luck.

[dustinbrown]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I'm taking all of what's been suggested under a great amount of consideration.

[chrisradsby]

I also really appreciate this thread, It's hard getting a job as a character artist, I'm also the kind of guy the likes most types of 3d-art, though 10 months ago when I started learning about this stuff I decided to go with characters since I found them interesting and fun to create. Since then my work has gone in that direction, learning new stuff with every character project.

I'm still daunted by the skills of the environment guys though, I really want to learn that myself and someday I probably will. I want to create awesome environments and awesome characters, nothing wrong with that right?

[dustinbrown]

On a related note, I'm also looking in to Quality Assurance (Game Testing) as a means to get my foot in the door. Some of you may scoff at that, but I don't see anything wrong with starting at the "bottom" and working your way up. In fact, I can see many benefits to it, from a professional standpoint. You get the opportunity to see how games work from a very nuts and bolts point of view. Also, companies will often offer apprenticeships which don't get advertised on the internet, so the only people that are generally aware of them are already within the the company. Working in QA makes you aware of these opportunities. It also allows you to start the professional networking process.

[LowRez]

On a related note, I'm also looking in to Quality Assurance (Game Testing) as a means to get my foot in the door. Some of you may scoff at that, but I don't see anything wrong with starting at the "bottom" and working your way up. In fact, I can see many benefits to it, from a professional standpoint. You get the opportunity to see how games work from a very nuts and bolts point of view. Also, companies will often offer apprenticeships which don't get advertised on the internet, so the only people that are generally aware of them are already within the the company. Working in QA makes you aware of these opportunities. It also allows you to start the professional networking process.

no no no no no..... this is a common misconception... you can't work your way up from QA into Art easily. for every 1000 who try 0-1 make it. The rest get stuck in QA or try to move into production on design as their arts so out of practice cause of all the unpaid overtime the testers are doing... Seriously just do a 9-5 if you need to pay bills, but avoid QA if you want to use it as a spring board, it's like a venus fly trap to flys, looks inviting but deadly to most who fall into it.

People compare it to being a runner for films sometimes but it's nothing like it. I have alot of respect for anyone prepared to do it cause it's a boring job with little reward and usually your the people blamed when a games poor, "didn't they have testers!!1!!!11!" If you have the talent to be an artist apply to be an artist... don't waste time with QA. I can't stress this enough. very few artists come through QA ranks.

[dustinbrown]

I value your opinion. I don't have the experience to disagree with you, but the job market sucks right now, I've been unemployed for over a year, and I don't have a strong enough portfolio yet to get a Modeling job in games. A year's worth of turned down applications is proof of that.

More, my skills aren't very transferable to other industries, so the only jobs aside from doing 3D I'm qualified to do are menial jobs. So until I can land that dream job, I essentially have a choice between flipping pizzas or QA. All of my education, professional skills, and experience to this point are geared 100% toward 3D modeling. My resume reflects that. In this ultra competitive job market, every employer is being extremely picky about who they hire, even for menial labor. They want people with experience specific to that job. Experienced construction workers are fighting for the chance to work at Home Depot. It's ridiculous.

All I'm saying is, before you dismiss QA completely, try to bear in mind that 1) These are tough times and 2) Not everyone is at the same point in the body of their work. I'm trying really hard, but I'm not there yet. QA could possibly...hopefully...open some doors for me that were closed before. In the meantime, I'll keep cranking away at my portfolio.

Again, thanks for your input. I'm sure there is some validity to it. I'm just doing the best I can with the options that are currently available to me.

[LowRez]

No worries mate, I get that it's tougher in the US than in the UK so my perspective is a little warped on that.

But seriously, if you go the QA route - make yourself a plan that you will leave after one big project or something... just don't waste your talent by getting stuck in the QA time warp... and wake in 4 years going what the F have I beeen doing!!!

I'd honestly pick working for pizza hut if I was in your situation, at least cooking pizza is far enough removed that you won't get trapped doing it for too long, And your not staring at a screen all day so you actually want to work on your pc/art when you get home without needing to force yourself too.

It may sound strange but QA is such a tempting job to get trapped in. The pays too poor for you to quit without another job lined up, your playing games all day with a group of fun people and you see some of the workings of the games industry. problem is for an artist it isn't the bottom of the rung, it's a sidestep thats hard to take easily.

Just make sure you plan your escape route basically

[ThomasVogel]

Well, there is a way to work your way from QA to Art. You can do an internship at a big Studio which has a name in the industry and when the people inside see you as a nice person there is a chance it's small but it's there :)

What Lowrez pointed out is also completly right. Yeah you loose time and you get not the time back for art stuff.
The more important thing in my opinion is the hardness of this job, don't underestimate how hard it can be to test a game 8h a day, play one level hundred times, play through the whole game 50 times. QA is much more exhausting IF you do it right(in my opinion).

You get only a only a chance to switch the departments If you' r work was really good as a QA guy.

[crazyfool]

I second Lowrez, QA doesnt normally last long either, the last company I was at brought on 2-3 QA staff every couple of months and we would only see them for a short while before they disappear for ages. You also wont get much time with artists as you will be dealing with producers and spreadsheets mostly.

end of the day a jobs a job and if it gets you in then thats great and you can network like crazy. I had a similar spell not too long ago when I was looking at 7 months unemployment and just wanted a job aslong as it wasnt going back to retail but you got to step back and think if its the right choice or not. as an artist I think you should be going for artist roles, characters arent the only way in and theres plenty of junior positions around that will get you in. If your starting out then relocation is the main barrier to overcome as you have to go where the work is until you have the experience to at some level choose where you want to work.

if moneys an issue then get any job you can (including QA, pizzas etc) we are all rooting for you dude but QA to me is so far from the art side of things it feels like a plumber that wants to be an optician, if that makes sense. but then again its money in the pocket.

[dustinbrown]

Thanks for the feedback and the support guys. It really means a lot. I'm just trying to keep my mind open right now. I'm a hard worker, I consider myself reasonably intelligent, and and I have a mature and positive work ethic; so I know it's just a matter of getting the ol' folio up to snuff. It will happen.

[chrisradsby]

You're really talented mate, you'll get your break. I'm still waiting for mine as well. Best of luck to you mate.

[JacqueChoi]

You're talented, but the immediate turnoff almost everyone here had was that you have No game art, show any wires, or any of your textures.

Show some wires, bake those sculpts out to lowrez, and show what you can do with lower rez.

:)