Dominance War II: What did and did not work? Suggestions? [Archive]

Oink

03-28-2007, 03:42 AM

I didn't read all of the submission part so I just clicked submit in hopes of being able to edit it later. (Which didn't work)

Also, I would love to have an easier way of reaching my entry to edit it. It was a bit of a hassle to be honest. Not a "hard" hassle but a time consuming one that could have been solved in an easier way.

It would have been nice to have a dominance war 2 section on this forum with five categories in it.

General, Cgchat, Cgtalk, Polycount and Threedy. This would keep everything in one place and people would be able to comment on each others work a bit more easy (Even though most of the guys here are members of all the forums mentioned). Keeping it all in the same place would make it easier non the less.

It would also help the forum grow ;)

kenny_bsp

03-28-2007, 06:59 AM

I already wrote about how silly I was not to press the Submit Finals button.. but the problem is you can't press it if haven't uploaded a concept. Sure I can upload an empty image, but thats kinda uncomfortable :d
It would also be cool to be able to have your own page with wip here, when you click the entry thumbnail, so you dont have to be redirected to the forums.
Or it could be better to have a possibility to change the url of the WIP thread, who knows what might happen.
The counter thingy confused me and i had to work realy fast, lucky I checked the submissions page to look at the counter. It would be nice to find some way to inform everyone correct ;D
Oh, the last thing I remember. Why was it, that you dont have to write "@" in your e-mail adress ? :D
But despite few of this things it was really nice. Keep up the good work :d

03-28-2007, 07:18 AM

Team Betrayals :mad:

many artists changed their team just to increase their chance of winning a prize and did not follow their previous affiliations.
there should have been a rule that one has to be a registered member of a particular forum for a certain time before the comp was announced in order to join that team

Oink

03-28-2007, 07:57 AM

That´s not nice :o

Sure it's a comp... but still.

ChrRambow

03-28-2007, 08:30 AM

I found the solution great as it was ... the only thing i have to complain about was that we where not to be able to change the final submission after they where submitted. But it's not a large problem because i was waiting till i was satisfied with my results.

Ah and btw. cgsociety will win! :lucky: ... uhm i hope! :think:

And about desateurs :mad: ... there was a effective solution some
100 years ago. :ack:

onelung

03-28-2007, 10:20 AM

Yea, i definetly wish i coulda edited my final, cause i'm an idiot, and posted my images, until waiting till the next day to make sure everything was right. But it asked if i was sure... and like the moron/ tired fool i was i said yes.

So i think we're asking for a "i'm a moron and f'd up" button.

Other than that i thought it all worked out well! Congrats to all that finished!

Hito

03-28-2007, 10:40 AM

a "damn I f'd up" button would be nice, but kinda takes away purpose of "Are you absolutely sure" step. I'm cool either way with it. just set it so you can't submit final unless all the required images have been uploaded.

everything else was cool I think.

static

03-28-2007, 11:32 AM

my only suggestion would be that when the contest is finished, a page is built so that we can take a look at all the submissions. It took a lot of work to go through everyones thread and see their final submissions, and to be honest, Im pretty lazy and only saw about 10% of the finals. Just an idea :)

TryForce

03-28-2007, 01:18 PM

Everything was pretty nice

I really loved the thumbnail system an stuff, though i would suggest that you will let the thumbnail update go withouth the permanission of the admin.

Like i want to update my thumbnail and want to see it right approved withouth a waiting time. The admins should check daily or weekly the thumbnails and see if nothing is wrong.

Else i would suggest a "5 Random Thumbnails" additional on the site.
those thumbnails are somewhere on the page and show 5 thumbnails.
after like 2-4 seconds the thumbnails change.
(example site: http://models-week.de [look on the bottom left])
or you can make it like that, that the thumbnails change every time you click on another site.

Also maybe a "comment on this work" should be included maybe ;P to just see the thumbnail and its work so far ( like the latest status pic of it) and so you could leave a message on the dominance war site withouth registering.

because maybe people would like to comment on someones work, but its kinda bothering to register on another forum ^^

and after the submission all comments get deleted or archived dunno.
and yeh, on the bottom of the Entry Profile you should add a buttom with:
"click here to see the WIP thread"

So my suggestions:

-Removing of the thumbnail approving
-Adding a "5 random thumbnails" on the site
-Adding a own Dominance war entry profile where you can leave a comment and see the latest status pic of the entry

;D cheers, tell me if its fine.

try!

Edit: also a Puplic rating would be nice, like to see how does the puplic think about the others work.
It would not only support the winners by improving, it owuld also help the "not good" entries to see ,what they may have done wrong or different. ;)

yey more ideas will come!

nickpappas

03-28-2007, 02:27 PM

TryForce

03-28-2007, 02:31 PM

fred, my suggestion is about how you're funding this thing... next year... make the forums that want to compete....pay a fee to be part of dominance war. This whole contest is the perfect advertising for each forum and companies who pay them for advertising. For contest like this, the money should not be coming out of your pocket, man! This contest also sells products... approach the videocard makers, art software guys and game publishers and they'll sponsor it for sure!

say good bye to all those who don't have money, and welcome to the rich guys!

not that good idea :-\ , my parents wouldn't gimme that money especially think of i dont might finish it in time, what was it worth then?
I agree bout the Support with the money, but therefor we had the donations where people could proudly pay 20$ for the next war, also may next time Magazines or other Game companys will support the War next year for advertising.....

zeke3d

03-28-2007, 02:31 PM

I feel, as tough as it may be is that if you set a date for final submissions it should be in stone! example: if you want the contest to last 6 weeks, but think you might add an extra week, go ahead and make it 8 weeks and set that in stone and not budge it. Overall I think everyone appreciates the extra time that was given, but still I dont think its good practice to have would be game artists think that, oh yeah, now with the next gen stuff, forget about time managment or setting deadlines or even making milestones cause in the end youll get cut the slack you need and who cares if these games/projects go way over schedual or budjet. not the best message.

Also I think the fee thing is a good Idea, In pro poker and such, people cash in lots of money, what about 100 bones a peice, think about it, 150 people think enough of the contest to put their time into it, cause they want to compete for Game Art, and there is not alot of that going on elsewhere all year long! Right off the bat you would rake in 15k in just entry fees, not to mention it would keep people from quitting early, and automaticly raise the stakes on top of whatever advertisement fees. some might argue that its too much money, but creating digital art is not the cheapest of hobbies with all the equipment expenses one has already invested in. This would really kick the serious up a notch, probally attract even more people, and give people the added reason, thats right reason to enter and put forth the effort to finnish and wow us. the only thing with the fees is, it needs to be announced in advance, like 6 months or so, and by word of mouth people would know to start saving, no specifics on the contest, just the entry fee set in stone, with most likely the prizes already estimated.

also fred, I think for next year you should allow for budjets in polycounts and textures, that would allow for entries to still look exciting and cutting edge for a year to come, for example: this year you set the limit to 6000 tri, but to want to be the shinning light for what art could look like, it could have easily been like, 12000 tris, multiple 2k maps, etc. this way it would express to the public, hey, yes games look amazing and are awsome, but look where it could easily go to, within a years growth in computing power! and set possible standards for once the wizard programmers figure out how to milk every drop of power from the PS3 and 360. I am aware that more polys wont make up for bad design and such, but in the hands of the killer talent in this contest it would provide a real WOW factor that would easily last for a year or more.

FredH

03-28-2007, 02:38 PM

Tryforce --> You came up with some nice ideas:)
- The reason why thumbnails need to be approved before they are shown is to prevent porn or joke images from initially showing up. If I administer thumbnails after they have been shown, if I am not at my computer 24/7, damage can easily be dealt. This rule is mainly in for polycount lol. They have an intense fascination for cats and obscene images.
- 5 random thumbnails is a good idea. I am not sure where to put it though. Since people can view entries by "most recent" I think this is probably the quickest way to find new art. 5 random thumbnails might show 1 month old and forgotten thumbnails that artists have given up on. Don't get me wrong, this is a great idea, but probably not needed for the dominance war system.
- In the past, I have considered adding a dominance war personal profile where people can comment, however, it's dominance war's intention of strengthening communities so this can only be done if the forums are kept separate. I know it's a bit of a hassle to register on new forums, but this is the price to pay to be part of one of your favorite communities.

FredH

03-28-2007, 02:42 PM

Tryforce --> Public rating will be added next year:) But, they won't be as official as the industry judges.

I can't really comment on other suggestions because I am still busy with setting up the judging pages and correcting broken entries. I will reply to everyone later tonight. All your opinions help. Thanks in advance:)

EVIL

03-28-2007, 03:14 PM

say good bye to all those who don't have money, and welcome to the rich guys!

not that good idea :-\ , my parents wouldn't gimme that money especially think of i dont might finish it in time, what was it worth then?
I agree bout the Support with the money, but therefor we had the donations where people could proudly pay 20$ for the next war, also may next time Magazines or other Game companys will support the War next year for advertising.....

I dont think he means every forum attende paying a fee, but the forum admins the ones who own the forum to get the fee to be in the contest by getting sponsors etc. this seems perfectly resonable to me.. and more sponsors also might involve more fun prizez then just cash.

TryForce

03-28-2007, 03:21 PM

FredH, thanks :D ,though i know the Porn abusment but i dont think that someone likes to ruin his entry with it, or? but i dont know good about it.
Edit: Yeh about the comment stuff... i mean something like in youtube, you watched the movie and leave your comment on it.... you will still have your friends around on the forums.
well just an suggestion ^^

@Evil: well still there's the point that you may have to pay to particuate on the war :-\

or did you had to pay for a puplic contest on the streets even if you're winning something?
The same are sports contest, the teams have only to pay for they're wear and license, as we with our modeling programs and everytihng needed.

just want to say that no everybody would perticuate on this war.... is it more fun to see how many people enter with diffeent ideas, or see people how they come up and say: man.... i want to take part too....just dont have the money.

Also to force the Admin forum to pay for it isnt a chance aswell.... i wouldnt like to join because someone who i dont know personaly paid for me :-\ but thats personal allready

EVIL

03-28-2007, 06:08 PM

paying to get on the war would be silly, I dont want to pay, the team I'm fightin for shoul press cold coins into prizes, becvause hey, the winners give publicity and credit to the forum, it should be rewarded by the forum they are fighting for.. anyway

one thing that would be kinda handy, would be like an text or image link next to your avatar or something to that links to the thread you created where your showing off your entry progress.. because sometimes I'm seeing post's of members on this forum and they might have used a diffrent user name so Its hard to find their entry.. It would link this community a bit more to the other community's.

Gavin

03-28-2007, 09:04 PM

I really enjoyed taking part in this contest, the wait paid off :)

I was really surprised to see that all of this is coming straight from you Fred and that, unlike last year, there weren't other sponsors. I know you mentioned before (maybe on Polycount) the reason why...but still, the 4 forums, game companies, software companies, etc should be jumping at the chance to get their name associated with, what I think is, the biggest game art competition around. Stop being so damn generous! :D

I really had no problems within th econtest, everything seemed to work easily for me...so, no real complaints.

Edit> Actually, there is one thing. I found that because the contest is so huge I am totally unaware of how everyone else is doing. I suppose, in true "war" I would have no idea and there's nothing stopping me from visiting their forums other than a lack of time to surf :P I guess I'm just seconding the idea of having the "5 Random Thumbs" or some kind of "Most Popular" thumbnail..

gav

TryForce

03-28-2007, 11:34 PM

Yung

03-29-2007, 03:19 AM

Perhaps just a simpler subforum where all Dominance War participants opens a thread here that links to their respective forums? Maybe enforce the rules that only major updates and comments are allowed, while back in their own forums, let the individual forum mod take care of things?

It is rather tiresome to browse through the other entries and it would be great even if just a simple viewing thread could be set up here.

Asmuel

03-29-2007, 04:09 AM

honorable mentions and community awards

I was thinking about this a long time ago and only just remembered. Snowfly drew like half of polycounts entrys (ok it was only 4 or something, but its very generous none the less). It could encourage people to be nice, help others and put in effort where they can. Just so people get some form of recognition when they help this competition in other ways than submitting a model or contributing money. The reward could be a small prize I dont know.

FredH

03-30-2007, 01:31 AM

In light of your feedback, the following changes will be made

- A bigger submit button will go on top of the page so people won't miss it next year.

- Keeping all the teams on separate forums will stay. It's true that everything could be run on one forum, but this would counteract dominance war's intention of building and strengthening separate communities.

- Paying to enter will not be implemented. This war was a little rushed because the system was being designed and programmed right up to the last day, so I didn't really have time to look for funding. But this time, I have one year to find the necessary advertising and sponsors for dominance war III. However, there might be an unfortunate consequence. Sponsors usually want everyone’s art.... I will see what I can do.

- To get to your entry pages easily, you need to bookmark your page hehe

- You don't need to write "@" in your emails because it is not used by the system. It's only there for show. So to prevent spybots from picking up your email address and sending you 10 000 emails, you could have written it like this: fhult99 [at] hotmail [dot] com

- Concept sheets will truly be optional next year. This was overlooked in the rush.

- URLs can be changed, but they can only be changed by an admin. Reason: People who don't finish love to break their url's and lead the viewer to a broken page. This gets annoying to everyone if broken links start showing up on 50% of the view entries thumbnail page.

- The countdown counter will be fixed. I realize everyone must have gotten confused:p At least it forced people to finish early hehe

- Team betrayals are allowed. They are always funny to see:p When dominance war gets more popular, the amount of winners per team will rise. This way, even if you are on a very good team, there will be enough prizes to go around

- a "damn I f'd up" button is already in. It's titled, Email the admin:p

- For locking contest deadlines in stone, this is great for artists who are bent on winning, but it would innevitably kill the dominance war. If an extension is not given, and there are only 10 artists that manage to finish... say goodbye to dominance war. No sponsors would ever again sign on, and 10 000 dollars would be wasted. There will always be a chance that a contest might get extended. Artists just have to take this into account while they work.

- Raising poly budgets and textures will be done for domwarIII. Well said zeke3d!

- Links besides avatars that lead to your 'in progress entries' is hard to implement. I could have it done on gameartisans.. but during a war, this really wouldn't do anything for other forums. However, this is a good idea for in house gameartisans contests:)

Gavin --> Yeah, this year hurt me a lot:( But, it should make things easier for next year:)

_FreD_

FredH

03-30-2007, 01:37 AM

Asmuel --> Asmuel, that is a very interesting idea. Yes, snowfly made many concepts, and montecristo on 3dtotal made numerous avatars to get people in the mood. But, it's hard to figure out a legit system to give people awards for this:think:

Asmuel

03-30-2007, 04:45 AM

Yea it would be hard to think of a system, maybe it would just be up to whoever the sponsor feels is deserving.

I dont know man, I have to say theres something about team entrys I dont like, but I cant put my finger on it. Feels a little greasy having to take on multiple opponents, especially when they work together. Its only a small step away from a corporate entry. Kinda leaves you with this feeling like, "man, Im sure I could have beaten any of you individually".

I know teams are good for the competition, because it means the quality of work is higher. But I dont know, I think it may need to be addressed in some way. It could discourage people from entering, if it didnt already this year.

I guess what Im saying is it detracted from my experiance in the competition, though Im not sure what the solution would be.

indian_boy

03-30-2007, 07:31 AM

i hope dom war 3 remains a character based contest?

sorry for this 'wasted' post. i just couldn't find a 'flaw' that hasn't been mentioned before....

cheers!

Snowfly

03-30-2007, 09:34 PM

Considering how high the poly and texture budgets are, allowing only a 800x900 lossy jpg for the beauty shot doesn't do the models justice.

Another problem I have with this year's and last year's portrait orientation beauty shot is it seems to favor upright character designs...Have seen some entries with over-the-top silhouettes and appendages that get cropped off in a weird way in the beauty shot. I feel that the beauty shot format for whatever reason reduces the choice of char designs that won't look awkward in the showcase image...

Not sure what the solution is to this yet, aside from popping the models into a real-time viewer, but there are many reasons why that won't work as well..

That said...thanks Fred for the contest this year! I'm sure everyone agrees it's another rousing success. :)

Snowfly

03-30-2007, 09:40 PM

On the other hand...game artists do need to learn to work smart and focus only on 'what will be seen'. and damned if 800x900 isn't adequate for the pre-render folks on CGTalk...

Still feel the same way about being restricted to a portrait orientation shot though.

xvampire

03-30-2007, 11:02 PM

allow vehicle plz :p

or next dom war should be vehicle or steed focus
make specific polycount for those stuff,

Oink

03-31-2007, 02:33 AM

I would love to have a character + vehicle option. Who knows, next year it might be the fast-attack guys that get to be in the spotlight.

indian_boy

03-31-2007, 11:29 PM

yeah possibly (at oinks suggestion) i could imagine the brief being along the lines of: "the victorious Polycount shadows have dug a hole in the opposition defences, now it is time for a quick assault to bring down their entire mechanism." In which case polycount will be making fast, quick-assault characters, while others would have to make more defensive type characters? dunno... Fred is the creative one...

all i know is that i can't wait.

Chasarsis

03-31-2007, 11:46 PM

What I'd really like to see is a focus on the competitiveness between the entry character's themselves. E.g. entrants have the ability to choose a rival to their character, someone that their character could fight on even keel with, or that they could imagine their character hating and wanting to take down.

Maybe even go so far as to allow rivals to use each others entries in their final pictures

Alternatively, maybe the character's can have allies that might compensate for weaknesses in their design. Like a ranged shadow might find a friend in a brawler type design.

And this would be a surface element; artists wouldn't need to collaborate with each other to make sure their designs meshed. Primarily it would be just to play up the story of this ultimately being a conflict between the character's

indian_boy

04-01-2007, 10:21 AM

hey that sounds interesting. Like delving into the world of Dominance War. Giving it a story of sorts. But possibly very difficult to coordinate and stuff?

FredH

04-02-2007, 06:28 PM

Asmuel --> When I mentioned coming up with a ligit system, I was refering to good critters, mass concept makers, avatar makers etc. Anyone who tried their best to help others. For teams, I will beat my head against the wall for one entire year in order to find a solution to fix this:)

indian_boy --> Dominance War will always be a character based contest;)

Snowfly --> I suppose I can raise it to 1000 wide x 1000 high. I was suppose to do it this year, but I ran out of time so I just launched the contest:paper:

xvampire --> I doubt vehicles will be allowed for next year. But, perhaps things might change. If they are added, most likely only small vehicles would be allowed.

Chasarsis --> :think: interesting idea. I think I am starting to like the sounds of team ups. Hmm, maybe I can put a separate section for scenic team shots. Up to four people can team up together to make one big scenic diorama shot (on a big pedestal). This could be cool. They can win some prizes, but these scenic entries will not count towards deciding who wins the war. They will be separate so people from different teams can team up with each other. I'll think about this one some more. Thanks for the idea. Good stuff!:thumb:

EVIL

04-03-2007, 11:39 AM

ooh chasarsis .. cool idea.. it will totally enforce the message of making friends on the messageboards

FredH

04-03-2007, 11:59 AM

Finally, the judging for Dominance War II has begun. Now I can relax:approve:

kipiripi

04-03-2007, 12:43 PM

hehe Finally,hurrryyy up hurryyy,Everybody waiting for this :) Nice news..

Hito

04-03-2007, 01:16 PM

I don't know if I can handle much higher specs; I worked non-stop the last 3 days to get the thing to a submittable state, and another few days to really finish it after the deadline; I am sure alot of you guys did the same as well. with specs like 10k polycoung and 2024 or higher maps I see this comp dragging on for months; tough to keep going full tilt when alot of people have full time work.

individual head to head is a cool idea; like the Thunderdomes on conceptart.org. but the bigger the comp gets the longer it has to go on and the harder it is to keep people's interest.

EVIL

04-03-2007, 01:35 PM

I had more problems keeping things under 6k then getting things up to 6k

Oink

04-03-2007, 02:34 PM

This was the first time I went this high and I'm crapping my pants by the thought of going higher.

I have to do a shitload of characters in preparation for the next war so I can kick some ass... at least somebodys ass would be nice to kick :)

Asmuel

04-03-2007, 08:49 PM

For teams, I will beat my head against the wall for one entire year in order to find a solution to fix this:)

You forgot the smiley :brick: ;)

I cant believe Pascal Blanche is writing about how shit my work looks right now lol :confused: J/K

EVIL

04-04-2007, 06:07 AM

7500 try's for the character and 2500 for sword items etc would be nice.. so you have 10000 in total

EVIL

04-04-2007, 12:59 PM

oh btw.. How about as a prize in the next dominance war, getting your character rapid prototyped!

FredH

04-04-2007, 04:31 PM

Asmuel --> I am sure pascal only has nice things to say. He will probably start off with...

"First, I would just like to say how crappy Asmuel's entry was. Aside from that, everyone else's was great!" hahaha

Kidding aside, I don't know what you are talking about. Even though you didn't finish your entry 100%, it's a darn good entry!

Evil --> Rapid prototyped? This uses your high detail model right? Links please:inocent:

For polycount limits, next year, weapon and character budgets will be merged. I must have gotten a hundred letters this war asking what counts as a weapon and what counts as a character:brick: Next year, I will just give everyone a happy total and let them play with that:D

kipiripi -- > Hurry?:eek: Hey, I am still relaxing. I only have a little time off before I need to get things ready for gameartisans first comp:confused:

Hito --> The reason it might be good to raise the poly budgets is because if they are raised, the character becomes much more easy to create (excluding textures). If you had a lot of polies to work with, you can make a sloppy and quick mesh. No longer would you need to waste time trying to optimize your character to get it under a low limit. For textures, it would probably be best to keep this at 2048. If this rose, it would only cause heart attacks and stress attacks.

EVIL

04-04-2007, 06:57 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_prototyping

I dunno I have seen one of kenneth scotts zbrush models in rapid prototype form
from meh: http://download.pixologic.com/large-images/kenneth-scott/large-06.jpg

to meh!:http://download.pixologic.com/large-images/kenneth-scott/large-02.jpg

I know nothing further about the whole process I just know about it and that its quite interesting.. maybe the possibilities would be selling winner character figurines for $$$ dollah's to fund the next dom wars but thats taking it to a more extreme.

Asmuel

04-04-2007, 09:40 PM

Lol thanks Fred :lucky:

Dang everybody's having new competitions now, It'll be interesting to see what you come up with for gameartisans first one Fred :thumb: Cant wait. I'll have to see what can fit into my schedule but I'll enter if I can :think:

Marcus Dublin

04-05-2007, 08:58 AM

With the poly count increase I'm not sure if we have to go crazy with it. When I first saw the poly budget for this years comp I was like WTF:uhh: , those are PS2 poly specs but when making the model I just had to think harder and smarter on the construction. Honestly we had two great comps with terrific entries at midrange poly specs, so I'm thinking the updated specs for next years comp could be somewhere in the neighborhood of 9,000 to 10,000 poly's and that would include the weapon as well.:)

Marcus

Hito

04-09-2007, 10:53 AM

more polys = more UV work; more texture work; more vertex weighing work; more QA work = more time; for something that's doable in a timely fashion on part time I think around 10k is as far as I would go. but who knows, I'm sure I'll get faster the more I do and my limit will change.

yeah you might not have to be as careful and prudent in creating the mesh as you would be with a 2000 poly mesh; but sloppiness just makes everything else after modeling a nightmare.

_Vincento_

04-10-2007, 08:26 AM

Dominance War ][ ][ ][ 2008 :
here are my suggestions:

- About the teams entries :
I think it is not very fair play for the teams, because it have the same time period for the same products to do.
To my mind it could be better if it will be a Different Dominance war challenge, for exemple per team they could have one char to make but with 2 differents armors, or one char + one riding horse and so on...
- About the Players informations:
Another part that would be great to improve in DW III, would be the informations about the particpants. this year we already have that but more for example what school did you take, your age, and your current job.
That is important to me to keep contacts with the friends we made.

- About the trial Jury :
Did the judges will make diffrences between the people who are already in game studio and the future one :p I mean the students in this section.
Another part with I have no change for this is the information we have on the Judges. Thanks FreD we took plaisure to read who will correct us, well done.
Last question for the judges will they let us a small comment or advice for our entries ?

How improve my experience:
I have few questions for this
What softwares are you using for the body painting
I use photoshop and some time zbrush for the body paint but i'm not very satisfied with that.
My steps for the creation of a Character are:

Sketch -> Low poly modeling (max) -> unwrap -> High poly modeling (zBrush + max) -> Skining -> render.

I think it is the same for all, maybe the unwrap could be after the final modeling for some of you, it depend ;)

What softwares do you use to build the normal map ?
- Sometimes I use the projection mod with max, but I prefer to use zMapper (http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=031281) on zBrush

Finally I would Thanks all the particpants in this challenge, it was a very convivial and helpfuly for the newbies :D.
I would thanks The Jury who have allowed us a little of their busy time.
And I would Thanks and congratulate Fred who have managed this Challenge for us.
Thank you fred, Thank you everyones

And I would just say GO CGchat go :D

_Vincent

PS: I am sorry if i repeated some Ideas i didn't finished to read all the topics Yet.
About my english I hope it is clear for you and for the other abroads Players
Obviously I invite you to correct me.

FredH

04-10-2007, 03:28 PM

Marcus --> I guess 10k would be a nice round number for everyone's budgets:) I think next year, one month before the comp starts, I will open up a thread called wish list. Everyone will have one month to remind me what they wish to have in the competition. I can easily make tweaks if given enough time.

Hito --> yeah, I got sloppy with my entry. It's painful when you realize, oh crap, I have to redo all my normal projections because of faulty modeling:flag: Personally, I am all for raising the poly budgets. It will give everyone enough room to model joints properly.

Vincento --> Your English is fine:thumb:
- Because of next year's theme and an additional something, teams will not be allowed. However, there might be a separate category for team made Dioramas.
- To find an artists personal info, you would have to check their resumes:p But, it is an interesting idea. I will see what can be done.
- About the judges, they will write comments, but only for their top 5 picks. Any more than this, and they would all go insane. I realize a lot of people would have appreciated their comments, but this is really impossible. Your best bet would be to post your work on a forum and get crits there:)

Hito

04-10-2007, 03:41 PM

any word on judging status?

FredH

04-10-2007, 03:46 PM

Before April 23rd:) Judges results are coming in now....

Once they are in, I can then prep things for the public:cool:

Asmuel

04-10-2007, 05:08 PM

teams will not be allowed.

Yus! :lucky:

Im looking forward to having my revenge, should be in my prime by that time also, or atleast better.

FredH

04-10-2007, 07:28 PM

Asmuel --> :p

Vincento --> the more I think about your idea, the more I like it (putting in an info section for artists to write about themselves) I believe I have an idea on how to make this attractive so that artists will actually fill out their forms:) Thanks for letting me know about this!

Asmuel

04-10-2007, 10:16 PM

Yea I do like Vincento's idea also, good exposure for people :)

_Vincento_

04-11-2007, 04:51 AM

Hey
Yes i'm a genius that is why, hahaha kidding :p
I will do some researchs to know how make that if you want, yes that need to be attractive not like Forum personnals information.
but that is more for the Website support. Fred don't be afraid to ask us help if you need ;)

About the contest and its polycount, wouldn't be better to set it as same as the actual games.
@ Marcus hahaha 6000 triangles is what they use on UT2007 not only the PS2 but i think you know more than me hehe :D

I think for 2008 8000 tri would be an average of the different polycount used by the next Games.

but where I had some critics, is on the Weapon budget. if we want better modeling for the weapon it will be more appreciabe to grow its polycount, 1000 tri is too low to me.

for the Advertisement
A point I would like to discuss with you, is about the advertisement.
My idea for that, is why don't we make a final video of the char entries.

a short video who present the prizes, the entries, and the method to the creation of a character.
the problem will be the entries :D, 'cause all would like to show their characters,

so only for the top 10 I think, and for the rest a link made on your page entry of your rendered movie shared on youtube, other or your personnal online space. I try to be fair for all

Dominance War II on review haha, I will contact a teacher i had from "Computer Art (http://www.computerarts.co.uk/)" to know if it is possible to have a small part allowed to DW II.
But you should do the same thing with others review by your side. In group we will have more chance.
All my hopes for Domiance war to become an OFFICIAL Challenge.

_Vincent

indian_boy

04-12-2007, 03:20 AM

i have a suggestion for the next war:
set up seceret web-cams in the judges' rooms so that we can see the faces they make when they look at our various entries! I wanna see the different versions of "yuck" as they see mine :D!

seriously though... im hopping up and down to find out the results...
====================

alright, real suggestion:
i like the dioramas idea u've got. That way, environment artists will have a chance to show their skills too, and the competition will still remain a character based competition at heart. However, the dioramas can't be used for judging characters. Suppose somebody couldn't find a partner, or didn't want to have a diorama made, then what? They could be used for a different type of "victory pose" or something? i dunno, lol

cheers
-indian_boy

george.vas

04-12-2007, 06:08 AM

Good lord all mighty that was allot of reading...

Speaking as someone who has generously contributed to this project. Also as a founder and staff member of another game artist community that has run contests. As well as a former game art Instructor.

Let’s begin with funding… From my experience the best funding comes from Sponsors period and advertising is the key. I am sure Fred knows what he is doing and there will be plenty of sponsors next year. My recommendations are to make sure the communities that are aloud to participate in the contest give you free advertising. It costs them nothing and you get good publicity. Total win - win situation.

Contestants should never have to pay to enter that is total rubbish. That would drive entries down. Nobody would enter for fun and you can forget about hobbyists or students. Aside from not having money their not going to risk losing money against a pro. Speaking of which…

I think the poly limit was fine although I do think that the weapon should be included in it as Fred has all ready pointed out he will do next time. The higher the stats the less people are going to participate. This is a solid fact that I have experienced from many contests that I have run. It increases time and eats away at the fun factor completely.

When I was contemplating on entering this contest I was 50/50. I was hoping more for something around 5K but 6k was not too far off so I gave it a go. Not once did the thought of winning this contest ever cross my mind. I entered because it seemed like a fun project that was within reason for me to do on my spare time. It also helped me spend some more time on the other forums and check out some new people. I get so busy running mine that I hardly ever get a chance to mingle as much as I would like to.

Also this is a “Game Art” competition not lets see who can make the best looking hi res cut scene character. Anything above 8K is ridicules too high poly for in game characters. Guess what making game art is not easy you got to know how to optimize your character and use all your tools effectively. Cry me a river.. the polycount is too low I have to actually have some game art skills but I am really a high res artist who can’t texture detail.

I appreciate the fact of wanting to show the industry what is possible but the simple fact is this contest is not about that. It’s about the artist and the communities. It’s not about oh lets see who the best artist is on each forum. It’s about connecting with one another and improving as artists. See how others work and do things. I think all these points are being overshadowed. Everyone is trying to turn this into a commercial franchise and that was not Freds goal if I understood him correctly.

As far as teams go. Hate to say it but I personally would get rid of them or at least put them in another category where they don’t compete with individuals, it’s unbalanced and I can see it spiraling out of control.

The only disappoint for me is how few people and even worse companies decided to donate to this. I realize were not all made of money (especially me at the moment). However if you like something you should support it. Having said that though I don’t think a monetary value is good to have set. For instance maybe someone could have donated 5 or 10 dollars but could not afford 20. I say you let them decide how much to donate and who knows some people might pay more than 20. I think your alienating a lot of people by setting a price.

Lastly, please take everything I said as constructive criticism. It was not geared towards anyone in particular and if anything offended you then by all means please don’t read it again. ;)

Asmuel

04-12-2007, 06:27 PM

For instance maybe someone could have donated 5 or 10 dollars but could not afford 20. I say you let them decide how much to donate and who knows some people might pay more than 20. I think your alienating a lot of people by setting a price.

Good point I have about $15 sitting in a paypal account left over from the last competition I won (you can only take out a certain amount a month). I would be happy to donate that (I made one attempt to do so but gave up after 10 min of confusion on paypals site lol :cry:). Other than that Im a dirt poor 20yo, though If I win some money I'll tell Fred to hold on to a cut as my donation.

miezis

04-20-2007, 09:00 AM

Before April 23rd:) Judges results are coming in now....

Once they are in, I can then prep things for the public:cool:

oooh! can't wait!!! it's almost there! posted to ask - is the end to the war really near??? :eek:

ChrRambow

04-20-2007, 10:19 AM

Can you do not hear the silence ... and the last breath of fallen enemys? :uhh: :D

wyldwulf

05-02-2007, 09:20 AM

I suggest a tighter theme. I know people hate the idea of being pigeonholed into a small set of content parameters, but it seems to me to be the only way to insure (or at least encourage) that submissions to be created entirely within the time the brief and guildines are posted and the due date. It would also be cool if the forums themselves came up with the themes and passed them to the next forum- how fun could that be? :) Or perhaps derived from the judges of this year's comp. I mean, wouldn't YOU follow Brom's briefing?

Additionally, I honestly think teams vs. soloists is quite unbalanced. One thing I discovered is just how much I learned in this entire process. Despite that fact that I have been working in 3d for years there are some things I just don't do. I Have weaknesses, and this really exposed them. From a growth and learning standpoint I feel like soloing is really the way to go, but also puts one at a severe manpower and time disadvantage.

Did the judges take that into account? Should they? Shouldn't they? By the current judging system, they shouldn't but were I a judge, I'd lean subconciously towards the soloist.

I'm not saying teams should not exist, but I think in the future, it really should be split- team entries and solo entries. With some additional award/reward for solo entrants as I do feel its the best way to encourage the development of well rounded artists.

Mark

FredH

05-02-2007, 11:57 AM

George --> I read your comments a long time ago and they were really well said. Yes, you are right about making artists pay to enter. I will do my best to never let this happen. For poly limits, again, well said. The higher the specs, the less people enter. This has always been the case. I'll probably lock it on 6k for everything. Normal mappers can always make anything look good, regardless of polycount. For teams, I have thought it over. And they will be allowed again. However, only 1 concept artist and 1 3d artist can team up. Additionally, concept artists can only touch concepts. He/she is not allowed to help with the modelling, texturing, lighting or whatever.

wyldwulf --> Themes will be tighter next year. Nevertheless, there will always be a universal theme coupled together with specific themes for each forum. this is dominance war's key feature and should never be changed. There were a few complaints about people not liking their topics this year, but there will always be restrictions to a given competition:)

Antimagic

05-02-2007, 01:18 PM

I imagine it would be hard to set things up for random themes given by forums or someone other than the organizer. Artwork, html pages, advertising.. it would all be extremely hard to do.

kurocrash

05-02-2007, 02:03 PM

I'd really like it if the forums could choose their specific themes amongst themselves, maybe as a vote or something? I mean there's plenty of time to kind of vote & purpose these themes before a DW3. Maybe have a list of set themes & have each forum vote & choose? and say CGchat & Polycount vote on the same theme? priority for each forum could be dictated by how each forum did in this year's? just putting it out there

With me, I have posted at CGS a lot more than the other places so I kind of felt the obligation to be on that side, yet the 'Ancient' thing kind of wrecked my initial ideas of going with something that probably would have suited the 3DTotal theme a lot better.

-J

FredH

05-02-2007, 02:41 PM

hmmm, Perhaps giving forums a choice is a possibility for next year. "If" this happens, how would you suggest which forum chooses first? Perhaps a preleminary contest of sorts held during the summer? Something like cgchat's pocket monsters? It would be a tiny fun contest made to strengthen each community before they go to war with each other:p Whichever team wins the pocket monster comp, gets first dibs on choosing a theme.

any other ideas?

Gavin

05-02-2007, 02:49 PM

I actually really like that idea. It's like an ongoing battle between the "rival" forums. This may limit you because if you wanted to add new teams, they may be at a disadvantage as they wouldn't have taken part in the "mini challenge" to decide who goes first. Although, you could just give first dibs to the new team? :P

Would it be easy to coordinate the mini challenges amongst all of the forums or would you just have a challenge like the BHG we have now and, upon entering the contest, the competitor picks what team they belong to?

I do like that idea though, maybe there are other ways you could work these mini battles into the big DOMINANCE WAR!

Gav

wyldwulf

05-02-2007, 02:56 PM

My idea was that one forum actually picks their rival forum's theme. :)

Come up with a theme and pass it clockwise.

Mark

FredH

05-02-2007, 02:57 PM

If I run a mini challenge, it will use the special events system. So each forum will run their own comps seperatly and each forum will be responsible for making their own personal comp successful. Since this would be held in.. hmm.. september (right before blizzards comp), this would give other forums plenty of time to make sure they are on the list for DWIII before the preliminaries start.

FredH

05-02-2007, 03:04 PM

wyld, it's a good idea, but it would be impossible. forums would need to know the major theme before they can assign smaller themes to another forum. Plus, if the public became aware of the themes before hand, it would lead to mass cheating.

zeke3d

05-07-2007, 08:26 PM

I think next years judging should have a point system of sorts, and for judges to grade individually on these, like 0-100 etc. I don't know how things are done right now, but this score could then place people into places. from first to 200th place if need be. after this is done the judges could tally up the top ones if discussions need to be held concerning Winners and Forum winners, and have that done that way, or however its done now. but the thing with the points it would then give everyone score sheets that could easily be either averaged out or shown judge by judge ala American idol style. no comment needed, unless they feel compelled, this way, everyone gets their point cards, and finally the single or multiple tie breaker judges could be handed a stack of ties like.

10 people tied for 28th place, so you know the next 10 spots are all in Tie as far as points go,

each judge would go to his stacks and autonomously judge and order them to his opinion. this way everyone can get placed and/optional scorecard.

I think besides prizes, people just want to see and track their improvement, or slipping in a competitive arena. That way little Timmy who scored 84th place on DOMWAR3 can make it a resolution or goal to score 40th or better on DOMWARIV and feel as though his 80-160 hours of involvement combined have been for something.

I guess everyone getting a score and place goes back to what games let you do, track your progress so that you get continuously ,demonstrably better and I think its owed to everyone who takes the time to throw down.

also my next years polycount would be, 6000 quad characters and 1500 quad weapons with, 2 2kmaps for characters, and 1 2k map for guns, with again the ability to make (spec, norm, ect).

If not, how bout next year the polycounts/texture limits stay the same as this years, but allow for displacment maps? they can be rendered in mental ray, and generated in zbrush and mudsomething. Thats the next big thing, real-time displacement maps? Isnt it? Unreal engine 4 type stuff.

onelung

05-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Read a good bit, but there is just so much! My 2 cents:

Maybe keeping the divisions, but bringing the whole comp here to Game Artisians. So I would have CgChat on my profile to stand by proudly, but would fight against all. This would bring more attention and traffic to Game Artisians, but letting peeps still represent there small time beginnings.

I however like the counts, they could be higher or lower, doesn't really matter to me. However the higher ones are nice, cause that leads to more accessories, which help bring a character to life, or round off the top of a head. :) There are plenty of mini challenges for those that don't feel up to the conquest of Dominance War.

My BIIIIIGGEST complaint is not having a concept stop date. I think there should be a base cutoff date, where concepts have to be submitted by, and your character can vary from that some (like 20%), but nothing drastic. This would help keep some people on track, and others from borrowing other peeps ideas, and dulling down some of the really creative entries. Cause a 2 headed water demon is only cool when there aren't 5 other entries just like it.

Just some rumblings from a grumpy old man, lots of good ideas, but I though this comp was pretty rad, and am looking forward to the next one... only September seems soooo soon!

zeke3d

05-07-2007, 11:18 PM

concept submit cutoff sounds like a great idea, also keeps people from waiting to see what everyone else will do, and follow their initial gut and should bring in more creativity. also with the drastic increase in polycounts by no means forces peoples to walk right up to the limit lines, people could conceivably win and be 1/2 to 3/4 used up on polys with counts that high, it would allow for people who want to make octopuses or Indian god like creatures and characters the ability to do so, without the extra appendages looking like sticks, but for someone needing only 1/2 the polys to make the standard biped and wanting to keep their model lite could do so also.

On another note, I think backgrounds are not the best Idea, nor are stands, some sort of ground plane, and simple background gradients or color combos should be the new rule, the time and effort could be better used in the textures or image getting the final touch ups, and people getting sleep.

indian_boy

05-07-2007, 11:36 PM

i agree with most of what was said above. The only disagreements i have are as follows:
1) don't seperate the weapon/character counts and textures [i think u already decided on that Fred?]
2) i'm against setting a deadline for the concept. Just because i'm slow at it... but im sure there are others like me, so its not purely selfish reasons :D

The points system to grade ourselves would be really nice. There are some of us who _know_ that we can't compete for the top 3 [or top 10... or top 149 for that matter :)] but to get at least some feedback from what the judges thought etc. would be nice. I'm sure the judges rarely [if ever] skip an entry without saying a word about it. Perhaps the "other" entries could have simple points and bullets that show what the judges thought about those entries [if its not too much trouble that is]. Like a simple list of PROs and CONs to know that the "non-winners" are getting at least _some_ sort of crits to know what they're doing wrong.

Just a few thoughts of mine.....
overall though, neat competition! Can't wait for the next one :D

Peace

FredH

05-07-2007, 11:53 PM

Next year, judging will be reinvented. If more forums join, judges would suffer a stroke if they had to give 1 to 10 points per entry if 200+ entries finished. To compensate for this, Dominance War's new judging system will be based on the olympics. Each forum can only send their best artists into the final round of voting. there will be 2 rounds. Each forum will have to decide for themselves, how they would like to find and send their best.

DominanceWar.com can still keep track of everyone's placement, but I think only the top 20 per team should be listed. Anything below this.. I am sure people don't want to see:p

For concepts, this is a little strange. Taehoon, wyldwulf, and mop showed their work from the start.. and they were able to continue their work right up to the point they won the competition. I am not sure, but I think the chances of someone coming up with a better idea then yours is almost impossible if you come up with an idea that you are already proud of. Plus, the domwar is not very long. If people wait to join, they will be crushed by those who started from the beginning.

Backgrounds and pedestals... yeah, I hear you. I think something needs to be done about this. There were way too many questions about what is and what is not allowed for backgrounds.. and if different languages join next year's war, it will get even more complicated. Zeke, I agree with you, next year, people can only have a gradiant or one color background, and floors can only be a flat surface (2 tris). This should make lighting the focal point of this comp. Good idea:)

Putting everything on gameartisans --> Never. If I did this, I would not be able to hold future dominance wars. I must do everything possible to make sure each of the participating forums get stronger and stronger. I am sure one day, gameartisans will get a few members too, but there is no rush:)

Spacemonkey

05-08-2007, 01:04 AM

I was having an interesting discussion with a friend about the competition this year and a few interesting ideas occurred.

Although the competition specs could be considered potentially game 'specs' it seems most of the emphasis is put on the final images for the judgements. I think this can work well and identify great overall quality and is clearly an excellent way for people to judge.

However game art is different from regular cg art, in that we work within specific limitations and perhaps some acheivements should be shown to represnt this? Perhaps there might also be a judgement based on the models use of polies, fantastic texturing or highpoly work.

These are all aspects of gameart and while you can make a fantastic humanoid figure with a set number of polies a giant robot with a crazy silhouette might be much more challenging to create within that budget.
Of course its up to the artist to decide what is feasible and capable to produce to a high standard but it might bring back a little of the 'game' into this art competition :)

I think lots of people enter to learn, and having technical achievements noted and pointed out can help create awareness of things that need to be considered.

mrkite

05-08-2007, 02:30 PM

I thought it went well, though I found the shadow title of the brief misleading when it turned out to not actually be a mandatory judging criteria :P. The only real change i'd want next year is more clarity about the theme, maybe even to the extent of getting forum leaders or judges to agree on the wording before it all kicks off. Great comp!

Hito

05-08-2007, 02:47 PM

elimination round within each participating forum is a good idea. point system that totals a set of criterias with range of scores for each criteria is also good idea. I'm all for both.

coldkodiak

05-08-2007, 08:49 PM

I think lots of people enter to learn, and having technical achievements noted and pointed out can help create awareness of things that need to be considered.

I definately agree here.

Some notes on what was bad or good would have been nice.

Perhaps an easy way for judges to simply attach notes to each part of your submission.

I entered with the interest of learning, and while I did do so on my own, some pointers from professionals in the industry would have been extremely appreciated, and I'm sure many others would agree.

zeke3d

05-09-2007, 01:08 PM

Forum Olympics? Spicy!

Perhaps their would be a time frame in which the forum would close, and then all the entries entered would be place like they are now with no winners but with voting buttons. Then the top ones would come out.

As much as I like this, fraud and exploiting of the weaknesses of these vote poll systems might come into play,

or worse people just arguing till the cows come home on their forums, debating the top 15 or so. But would that be a good thing? hmmm. It could get pretty heated up in their or it might bring the individual communities closer together.

Then their should be a page for entries, finalists, and winners.

The quad for the stand could work really well, they could choose to have their character be posed floating above it, or as in the act of jumping, if you wanted the dynamic pose you could angle it, make it vertical to make it look like their guy was climbing, or move it to the top and have them hang upside down.

FredH

05-09-2007, 01:32 PM

Talked it over with rawkstar, and he came up with a better solution for judging. To insure only the best entries remain, he suggested there should be an ilimination round every week for 4 weeks until finally, judges choose their favorites. So for four weeks, dominancewar.com would dispense a list every monday that says who made it into the next round.

This method insures only the pure best remain because no one would kick off a fantastic entry. So best entries would never be overlooked. Plus, people will immidiately know their skill level because if they kicked off in the first round, they know they have one year to work harder on improving for the next war. Those who make it into the final round... they know they are gooood:cool:

What do you think?

Notes on finalists individual entry pages is actually a pretty interesting idea. Perhaps something like this can be done for domwar III:)

Yung

05-09-2007, 01:45 PM

Sounds Spiceeeey :approve:

But to be eliminated in the first round itself is gonna be disheartening. :cry:

FredH

05-09-2007, 01:53 PM

Yeah, I know. I imagine there would be many tears in every round. But, at least people know where they stand as artists hehe

zeke3d

05-09-2007, 02:14 PM

the elimination stuff sounds good, but maybe 2-3 weeks for the first round, concepts and modeling/highres sculpting of a key piece, but to keep things from going in every direction, milestones should be enforced? This would put everyone into a frenzy.

on the other hand the counterpoint to this would be, it wouldn't be fair to stamina based players, and I think in the game industry is based on the long haul ability to deliver.

Marcus Dublin

05-09-2007, 04:43 PM

“Great idea, survival of the fittest only the strong survive!:cool: ” This is a good way to weed out the weak early and have the big dogs go at it. I can see this going from Dominance of war to blood sport over night, and the boards could get pretty f&^cking vicious. We'll have to wait and see how things play out but it could be pretty fun. I mean can you imagine an artist making it to the final round only to be knocked out because he didn't have time to update there thread do to deadlines, work, girlfriend, etc:ack: ! I wonder what the criteria’s are going to be since this will be the defining factor in the polling.:thumb:

Marcus

FredH

05-09-2007, 04:45 PM

wait wait wait... This happens after everyone is finished. We don't eliminate anyone while they are still creating their entry:p

But... that would be funny if we did hehe (won't happen:p)

Marcus Dublin

05-09-2007, 04:59 PM

Gotcha, hahaha, that would have made for some funny Sh^%T!:lucky:

Marcus

shadowbreeze

05-09-2007, 07:28 PM

The elimination style judging sounds like a very good idea Especially for this reason,
"they know they have one year to work harder on improving for the next war. Those who make it into the final round... they know they are gooood",

but would it be too much to ask if the ones that were given the flick at this stage have a good and bad report so they could improve on those points?

wyldwulf

05-09-2007, 09:24 PM

I like it- Vitaliy is quite on target with that.

It lessens the visual overload for the judges for sure. I would have HATED being a judge this year.

I can forsee it being a bit of a source of in-fighting and turn into a popularity contest for sure, if not handled with care. That is one thing that is fought off by having a list of completely unbiased judges like this year.

Mark

Masakari

05-09-2007, 10:02 PM

+ I think the brief should be reinforced / executed next year. Most of the entries didn't really stick to their supposed "source" idea, people were making flesh characters completely covered in metal, and robots covered in organicky stuff. There's either a thematic brief to be followed or there isn't.

+ no public vote of any kind. That's just a popularity contest, and a lot of people aren't really qualified to rate game art.

+ a better rating system for entries, this year's results were... curious.

A big big BIG thanks to you Fred, for doing all this! :thumb: :thumb:

poopinmymouth

05-10-2007, 04:04 AM

Regardless of how you narrow it down, the people narrowing need to be qualified. I think even with the suggested system in place this year, the judges you used would still have let some of the great entries fall out first.

I really think the key to having a good judging panel is a few (3-5) very qualified character artists picking, rather than people from all disciplines.

http://www.mr-chompers.com/images/poop.gif (http://www.poopinmymouth.com)

indian_boy

05-10-2007, 05:09 AM

dear lord. i thought elimination was gonna take place as the contest continued. that would hurt {not talking about being eliminated first round or something} if ur an uber-texture artist, and u get kicked cuz some of ur polies don't "look right" or something.

okay, in this case i'm happy. This way, ur ranked on ur completed piece, and u can put urself into a bracket. {ie. first-outs, second-outs etc. etc.} both. good ideas.

i just still wanted some way so that those who aren't the "Judge's Favourites" can somehow find out what it is they did wrong. That's the way to improve [i think?]... knowing what u did wrong, and then fixing it!

now i can't wait till prelims.......... August? thank god... any sooner and my computer would still be in a ship.... just wondering, could u exlpain how the prelims will work out? still trying to figure out the entire 'story' and plan as such. As long as it adds to the Dom War universe, and to the hatred between these forums, i'm all for it!

peace!

EVIL

05-10-2007, 02:17 PM

anyway, I think models need to be complimented notonly on design and overal look but also on the details, a grade system would be good.. this way you have to look at the model in more detail. really evaluate it!

like

Technical
Textures
Modeling
Posing
Translation (from concept to 3d)

etc

Imperialism

05-10-2007, 02:31 PM

shadowbreeze

05-10-2007, 06:29 PM

Imperialism - hey not a bad idea about the private pm to an artist, that would help alot during the comp instead of waiting to the end:thumb: as for me Personally i just need to look at the finals from this year to see clearly why i did not win, i was no were near the finalist,( which is not a complaint) i t just wants me to work even harder, but i guess your right some people might want crit for the reason you stated.

coldkodiak

05-10-2007, 09:46 PM

I find it's strange that artists want judge critiques in a w.i.p based competition. You would think artists have already got enough critiques in their personal threads. When people press submit finals, they shouldn't expect to have volunteer professional judges take time out of their busy schedules to start analyzing every little detail on 10-30 entries. That's what personal threads are for. If artists want heavy hitting critique, they should pm or email another fellow pro artist who is entering on their team. I think people want critiques because they are looking for a reason that says 'why' they didn't win. It has nothing to do with how to improve or such. My two cents.

If only all the pros had any time to do anything but judge and do their own work...

/woe is me.

You know, I think just about everyone has a busy life. I still see lots of people all over posting critiques, even the pros, every once in awhile.

Anyways, I agree that the wip thread is good for critique. But arguably it's not the same as having a professional, if they choose to do so, make a suggestion. :P