BHG Challenge | kurocrash | Big Baby Death!

[kurocrash]

BHG Challenge | kurocrash | Big Baby Death!
http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/competitions/uploaded_thubnails/29-game-3d-art-166-1176702651-giant.jpg

kurocrash has entered the competition!

[kurocrash]

hey everyone.
mostly just claiming a spot at the moment. i was kind of racking my brain on what to do & remembered that there was this one drawing that bengal did several years back with like a giant 'buddha-space-baby' thing. i started a model based on that long ago but it never went anywhere. so i'm looking to start over & do something along those lines. concepts to follow.
the thing is i don't know whether to go really fantasy oriented with it or really high-tech scifi. does it matter?

-J

[EVIL]

you could kinda go the AKIRA way and make a HUGE fetus all tumor looking with tech patterns over it

[kurocrash]

thanks, evil! the thought definitely crossed my mind! maybe not a fetus, but maybe closer to the proportions of a newborn (i'm playing with body shape & the younger i go, the bigger the head has to be incomparison to the body, so i' don't want just a giant head, i'm trying to find a nice medium). i pulled up a few of the tetsuo images i had as reference for my concept (i gotta dig the manga out). seeing as i can get crazy mechanical, there will definitely be that 'bio-organic' feel to this thing. with the wires (i was thinking about plugging him into the pedestal at certain spots) & the bulges of skin/flesh/guts/what-have-you lol and he's going to be quite... rotund, as well.
Thanks for the suggestion!!


-J

[Marcus Dublin]

I can only imagine what in the hell this thing is going to be, hahaha!:D

Marcus

[zann]

Hey i wonder will it b something like the big baby :lucky:
http://www.tokyopop.com/content_pics/132_large.jpg

[Gavin]

Can't wait to see what you cook up man, I'm sure it's going to be impressive.

Keeping an eye on this one....

Gav

[ChrRambow]

interesting approach! Cannot wait what you come up with.

[kongni]

Sounds like a great idea. Go for it!

[ChrRambow]

The deadline is coming closer!!! :D *just wanted to see what you come up with*

[kurocrash]

As is Christmas! lol
Seriously though thanks for all of the comments & encouragement!
I've been doing a bit of sketching & brainstorming for it still yet. Pretty much still in the idea phase really. I'll have some newer sketches & things up later on this evening, but for right now here's a ridiculously old attempt i mentioned above. it's several years old (i'm using one of my good friend (http://www.digiteck3d.com/)'s awesome shaders) & in this version it's way more docile & happy than the final result of this will be, but something along these lines:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBDold.jpg
basically that. a giant fat baby in some sort of giant baby-coddling apparatus... probably with missle launchers... yeah... lol
more soon!

-J

[Frozan]

how cute :inocent:

[Marcus Dublin]

I have a feeling that this could be pretty interesting. I took this photo on my trip to Thailand a couple of years back and it would be cool if you had some Buda like character sitting next to a mountain or something, hehe. I anxious to see where this is all heading.;)

Marcus

[kurocrash]

thanks, marcus that's pretty close to some of the ideas i was having!

here's some sketches. Now the body is just a size relation (that thing next to his head is 6ft), base interpretation. The finished version will have all the tech details & stuff. no matter which set up I choose, I'll more than likely have him plugged into something. But i'm not sure which route to go with:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBD1.jpg

A - Generically just him, standing on his own, with an ornate rattle as a bludgeon

B - One of those circular baby walker-buggy things, but with a mounted weapons platform. Sort of like Mojo from the old X-comics

C - A hovering baby car seat with the same deal, but a bit more like modok, from old iron man books (marvel comics... what can i say?)

D - My original Idea, him in a satellite dish sort of set up. he remains stationary, but has a weapons platform that defends him & maybe some sexy caretaker priestesses... or something?) that thing across the middle is sort of a walk way that the player could utilize

E - Small variation of 'D', but the car seat idea of 'C' kind of rises out via hydraulics.

Not pictured - Maybe him just floating in sort of a lotus position? but surrounded by weapons, that he controls through various plugs &/or telekinetics?


I'm tore personally between equal parts B & E, but i was looking to hear some input. any suggestions would be appreciated! Also, any idea about coloration? should i make it something inhuman or make it creepy & make it fairly normal fleshtoned? Thanks!!!


-J

[ThatDon]

They are all great man! E gets my vote. the caretaker idea isn't bad at all, in fact it would serve as a perfect way to display your characters massiveness.

Best of luck!

[kurocrash]

Yeah, the caretaker girls were how I was going to show that size relation. If I didn't go with the stationary thing, I'd probably have gone with some sort of hero to do that. But definitely! NPC priestess girls it is!
I didn't see anything in the rules about having more than one player sized model...? I mean technically they'd be part of the stand?

anyway thanks, Don!


-J

[FredH]

Lol, this is an interesting idea.

If you put in a seat or something that encloses him in some form, I wonder if he would still look like a giant? If he is a giant, it would take a considerable amount of material and resources to provide a comfortable chair for him. Plus, who would make it? His chair would need to be as big as a saucer ship in the hit TV series "V."

In this respect, I am not sure, but perhaps "A" would be better?

[xvampire]

hi , nice idea,,

you can go search similar idea from master Craigmullin
http://www.goodbrush.com/cpg146/thumbnails.php?album=4
it might inspire u with his baron series

[kurocrash]

If you put in a seat or something that encloses him in some form, I wonder if he would still look like a giant? If he is a giant, it would take a considerable amount of material and resources to provide a comfortable chair for him. Plus, who would make it?

you raise an interesting point. The chair would have to be large & unwieldy & in fairness rather unrealistic. As for the manufacturers of a chair so large, I would say they would be the same responsible for making a baby so large! :D
I dunno, a giant baby seat doesn't seem too implausible to me when you've already got a giant baby lol
As for the scale, I'll try to synch up a nice way to play it up so both look huge. Seeing as he is fat & probably wouldn't move much, I was thinking he wouldn't be seated too comfortably in it, but rather kind of stuck in it, like over time he got fatter in it. If i do have the seat tethered to the platform, I might move some of the weapons & launchers off of the seat itself & more onto the area around him as part of the stand. Just that the less mass the seat has, the bigger he'll look in comparison.

and thanks xvampire, i'm familiar with craig mullins stuff & that series, but it's straying a little. Tetsuo at the end of Akira will probably be a wee bit closer to the final result. I appreciate the help though!

I'll be painting over the concept a little today, trying to establish how 'tech' &/or ugly I want to end up making him. And then I hope to move on to the seat. I also started a little on the face of this guy but it's a mouth, nose, & cheeks for a sculpting base, not much to really show off.
but more soon! thanks for the continued feedback!!

-J

[EVIL]

Why not carve a seat out of the side of a muntain.

[kurocrash]

I thought about it, but then he doesn't have the same range of motion/defense-from-all-angles going on. Someone could just nuke the other side of the mountain & be done with it! lol
I mean I guess I could make it so the mountain is mounted on some sort of turntable mechanism, but then I'd have to model him & like an entire mountain underneath him as the platform. Besides you had a lock on that whole 'carved out of' thing going on with yours & it's cool as hell, but I don't wanna swipe it or anything!

I'm probably going with 'E'. It's ridiculous & outlandish, but that's kind of why I like it. It fits the vibe of 'crazy' I kind of want to capture just right. The way I see it, is that he's on top of a huge karst (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/megaflood/images/quiz-karst-l.jpg) & the area around him would be enveloped in misty/foggy, like in those chinese landscape pictures you see sometimes.

I did some paint overs but my computer crashed & nothing was saved so I'm back on the horse today, redoing essentially what I was doing yesterday. I'll post something a bit later on though.

All of the entries are starting to look pretty fierce at this point & we've still got about a month left! i hope everyone keeps up the great work!


-J

[ChrRambow]

B got my vote ... you could him also let playing with some "Atom Rattles"

Come on ... every child loves destroying things. :D

[Gavin]

Looking cool man, digging the concept. C gets my vote, Marvel comics for the win.

[kurocrash]

thanks guys!
I'm pretty settled on doing E. Only because it has the 'modok' car seat of C, & I'm going to have to go with a base anyhow. I'll probably nix the Hydraulic lifts though so the seat is just hovering or maybe tethered via a cable. But something along those lines. And depending on my polycounts, I might give him a teddy bear or a rattle in his little chair with him.

as far as progress I can show here's sort of a little reference/ideasheet i threw together before I started drawing that last concept sketch. figure I'll post it now though:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBDidea.jpg

and here are just some random brainstorming ideas for the baby itself:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBD2.jpg
ranging from tetsuo, to plain with cyborg outlines, to tron looking thing, to even a rocky brown version with paint & a wee bit of moss/mildew starting. even a footy pajama version with an eye-scouter. i might take bits from one & mix them, or i might go with something completely different. but i was just hoping to get some feedback, as right now i'm a bit torn as to what to do with him. so any comments would be appreciated.

-J

[kurocrash]

http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBD3.jpg

totally know i should be modeling... and lord knows i've been trying but i haven't been thrilled with any of the results just yet. but anyway, here's kind of a more fleshed out version of what i'm looking to do. since i don't have many environment samples, i might go overboard on the stand & incorporate that (probably after the fact) so that's probably going to be the concept, with the launchers & things situated more around the summit, instead of kind of hid in the back.


-J

[george.vas]

Even if your not happy with it I would post it up so you can get some crits on it. Alot of us are just tweaking as we go. I look forward to seeing this in 3D looks really cool.

[kurocrash]

i keep starting from scratch actually.

-J

[george.vas]

I realize that, but maybe show us what you scrapped. Someone might see something that really works and point it out to you, that you could keep. Unless your not even getting to a point of even a simple blocked out version. Which if that is the case then I see your point. Because that has happened to me many times. Just keep chugging away at it, the law of averages will work in your favor. Sooner or later you will come up with something that you like. You got a great imagination so, I look forward to it. :thumb:

[kurocrash]

by starting from scratch i mean i haven't saved the attempts. they were that bad lol
i don't think it's so much a matter of law of averages as much as a plan of attack for how to go about it. i've never really accomplished precise edges with mech things & i'm wondering whether i should do seperate pieces & try mapping them together or attempt to sculpt it with mudbox (though i've tried that with something else & got terrible results). any suggestions on how to get those precise details?

-J

[FredH]

Damn, this one is funny:p The drape idea was a good choice. It makes him look like an extremly evil fat diety. I kind of miss the huggies pants, but the drape is better I guess hehe.

Personally, I think it would be much more simple if you modelled hard edges stuff in max or maya. During the war, I tried making my gun in zbrush and mudbox, but in order to make something decent, I had to crank up the polies... and it would still look very bad. You have much more control in a 3d program like max or maya.

That said, this is a really cool idea. Can't wait to see more!

[kurocrash]

thanks, Fred!
I chose the drape as I wanted to play up a bit of the eastern feel a bit & nothing else seems to do that with him. like a fat evil antibuddha... baby... thing lol

i have an old PS plugin that converts bump maps to normal maps. so i was thinking about drawing up a bump map with the precise edges i was thinking about, but i can't seem to get that to work either. it's the old nvidia one. if anyone knows how to use it & knows of a tutorial, i'd appreciate it! if not i guess i'll just have to start modeling away!

anyway thanks fred! and regardless, there will be some more progress on him soon!

-J

[FredH]

Personally, I always use this one. Since I don't make too many normal mapped characters, I get a little rusty on the process of making them. I always look at this tutorial for guidance (by poopinmymouth). It also talks a little about the nvidia filter you are using. I used his adobe actions script to make a lot of details on my domwar entry. Works like a charm:)

link:
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/normal_workflow_3.htm

[kurocrash]

thanks for the link fred, i knew of that tutorial, but it was the nvidia plug in itself crashing or not opening properly. i reloaded it though & got this:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/norm.jpg
gotta mess with it a bit more but i think i found a way to get those seams nicely. thanks!!

on to the next problem though, that specularity off to the one edge of the image. for some reason, i get that with normal maps in maya. if the material has any specularity, the left corner of it will start blowing out. it keeps happening to me. gah!!

anyway, now no excuse to start plugging away at the model... updates soon

-J

[Marcus Dublin]

I have to say you’ve gone all out with the thought process for your entry regarding the concept and hopefully it’ll workout for you in the end. Please post some shots of the mesh soon, I’m anxious to see this take form in 3d!:D

Marcus

[shadowbreeze]

i'm looking forward to seeing which way you take this big bad baby:D

have you tried crazybump? you can get some really good normal maps with it.

[kurocrash]

hey guys! thanks for the encouragement. yes, i do overthink my personal projects. i don't know why... it just happens lol also i do have crazybump however i have never tried it. i might give that a shot, compare & contrast between that & the nvidia one.

i just started getting some model progress when i had a job opportunity arise. this week i've gotta get a reel together. so i'm going to be even further behind. chances probably aren't likely for me, but i never officially give up lol you will see progress... eventually. anyway, thanks for the comments!

-J

[kurocrash]

hey all. i got my reel done & back on this with a bit of a vengence. here's the mesh i did. right now it's 4430 polys, but i was hoping to make him & the seat the actual model/entry part.
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBDmesh1.jpg
the legs aren't attached & are just going to sit up like that, seeing as it'll all be covered anyhow. once i get the seat in the back, & all that will be taken out. next up is the seat

-J

[FredH]

Looking really cool! Looks exactly like the concept, but better! If you make the seat a part of him, I guess you can cut off his back and everything underneath to get him under 5k. Should be alright (I hope).

[edit] oh, you mentioned the seat at the bottom. My bad.

[kurocrash]

thanks fred!

as for the seat, i kind of came out with the shape in my head, but it's not translating so well into a model. I wanted something like a car seat. but now i guess it's going to have to be part car seat/part egg cup. lol
anyway, thanks, more soon!

-J

[Jill'san]

car seat is overrated. Part car, part egg sounds much much better:) Really nice work on the model. You have captured the concept extremely well.

[kurocrash]

thanks imperialism!

hey guys! i had kind of given up, as my laptop's power supply died as i tried to make the original deadline. i had started working on it on my other computer but there was no internet connection on that. anyhow, I have been working on him & will post an update as soon as I can.
all of my low poly is done, & it's about 4995 triangles i believe. since i plan to do a lot of the details on the normal maps via photoshop, i'm right now working on a base map to impose that detail on.
I have the baby on a 512x512, the seat on a 512x512, & his robes on a 512x256 for right now. each has/will have diffuse, specular, & glow; the baby & the seat will have normal maps, the robe will have an alpha map. least that's the plan.

i'll post shots soon!

-J

[Socket7]

Glad you haven't given up. :) Hope to see da baby.

[FredH]

I was actually wondering what happened to yours. Glad to hear you have got something done during your laptop's breakdown:)

[BiG ToE]

I want my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back. I want my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back.

and now I' want ribs for dinner. Thanks alot.

[ThatDon]

you're useless big toe!

[kurocrash]

lol it's cool, that's just big toe getting back at me for leaving innane meatwad quotes on his wip thread.
thanks for the continued interest guys! here's a update, would've posted it last night but my ftp program was giving me hassles. if it's not one thing it's another. anyway:
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/BBDmesh2.jpg
i was right about the triangle count, 4995 all & all. i'm just starting on the textures, they're just on to give an idea.
more soon!
-J

[zann]

Hey nice to hav the baby back online! :thumb:

[Antimagic]

Nice to see some progress on him. The proportions are looking great. The baby's finally back!!

[kurocrash]

thanks guys. i got the suggestion on a different forum to bulk up the hands. i might try that, but not too much. i just might try to find a happy medium with that.


in other news... HELP!
i preface this by saying i'm learning to hate normal maps. i've consistently had a problem with them when i first started trying them in maya 6. i could see the model fine in the viewport at high quality but whenever i software rendered, say for a turntable, they'd blow out & the specularity channel would freak out on the left side (the effects were far worse in MR), EVEN if the uv's weren't overlapping on the map. it was giving me a hassle all throughout the dominance war competition. people told me they had maya 8.5 & it worked fine for them. so in between comps, i updated.
Now, i still get that same specularity issue (on two different computers!) & now, Maya 8.5 won't even let me open up the high quality viewport to let me see the normal maps on the model, saying my graphics card is obsolete! mind you, other programs like mudbox & xnormal have given me no hassle showing normal maps at all... ever! xnormal even actually does an excellent job showing glow maps over maya. but i can't render out in them or get large, high quality screenshots (xnormal maxs a little higher than 680x480 when you use it to screenshot).

so my question... after all that... are there any free model viewer programs or basic game engines that support obj's & normal maps which i could render & get, say, a decent beauty shot out of? or at least 1280x724 screenshot? as this is really starting to drive me crazy!

i'd really appreciate that, as i'm trying to finish up this model up before the deadline, but i can't even see the normal maps I made for it!


-J

[ThatDon]

xnormal (http://www.xnormal.net/) is a great little program. also if you care to spend $15 you should look into roboblitz (http://store.digitalriver.com/store/roboblit/DisplayHomePage) as it comes with a modified version of the unreal 3 editor.

You will need to buy the non-steam version of roboblitz (http://store.digitalriver.com/store/roboblit/DisplayHomePage)and also will need to use this mod (http://files.filefront.com/JaReal+v10/;6991203;/fileinfo.html) to import your 3d mesh

[kurocrash]

i love xnormal, but i can't use it to get a render out a decent turntable or even a screenshot image bigger than its un-resizeable model viewer window.

EDIT - i thought the roboblitz links you gave me were two seperate links.
but that should work? what kind of size is it? can i screenshot out of it ok?

-J

[ThatDon]

That's correct, enjoy if you end up purchasing it ;)

[Socket7]

I understand perfectly the problem with normal maps. I've begun to hate ZB as I just loved it from the first touch. Can't help you with this issue, I'm using 3D Max + ZBrush and actually tried normal mapping for the first time now... but may the force be with you! :)

[EVIL]

get 3ds max.. I never had any problem with creating normal maps and rendering them in max. they dont always show up in the viewport but when rendering they are beautifull

[Enma]

Try rendering with Mental Ray maybe? It's what I use, and although it can be alittle fiddly to setup initially, the results cant be argued with :)

[kurocrash]

thanks guys...
i tried roboblitz, but even that was apparenty too much for my computer to handle. like it ran fine, but it wouldn't load the textures on the character or any of the props. and even then, that depended on the lighting of the area, sometimes it'd show, other times not. even then, i have no idea what i'm doing in the unreal editor lol
and like i said, the results in mental ray were far worse. i tried adjusting my lights & render settings, but the best i can get is the whole model getting blown out.
i guess it is just a hardware issue then. but it's bizarre how i can get it to work in some programs & completely not in others. because time is of the essence with this one, i think i'm just going to nix the idea of normal maps. thanks for the help though guys!

-J

[Dentysta]

You can check a free modeling application like Blender. As far as I know it is possible to use/render normal maps. Its new version also contains a sculptor, so it is a really powerful tool. The only disadvantage is the interface, I tried few times to learn it, but I am too lazy :uhh:

[Marcus Dublin]

To bad you don't have max this would have been way easier and I would have been able to help you out some. Good luck with your entry kurocrash and hopefully we'll see you at the finish line.

Marcus

PS: Can you get grayscale bumped normal maps to show up or are you having a problem with just baked normal maps?

[kurocrash]

thanks guys. i have been able to get grayscale bump maps to work fine in maya. at least when i was running 6, haven't tried recently. i did manage to get a little something out of xnormal anyhow with the one map i did make, but it's still a too rough for beauty renders. i'll keep toying though.
since the problem is probably a matter of hardware & everything is hit or miss on what works & what doesn't, i'm not sure looking into new programs is really going to help too much, though i appreciate the suggestions.

-J

[Marcus Dublin]

I think its time for a new rig my friend if you can swing it:) , anyway normal maps shouldn’t define the art in the end. Best of luck to you!:)

Marcus

[kurocrash]

wow.... i kinda... sorta... i think... maybe just made it...?
i had the images uploaded & submitted a thumbnail & hit submit, but the clock ran out as it was loading i think... does that still count? lol
not at all happy with the textures, but i did want to submit something. anyway, here are my final images:

http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/bbd.jpg
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/Win.jpg
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/Beauty.jpg
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/construct.jpg
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/tex.jpg
http://www.jaredlewis.com/3d/bbd/concept.jpg

ultimately, it's not what i wished it could have been, but i'm happy to have something to turn in. i may redo him up a bit, but i'm kinda sick of looking at him lol anyway thanks for the continued help & support & awesome feedback. i appreciate it all & good luck on your own entries!

-J

[kurocrash]

crap! also forgot to say that triangle wise it ended up being 4973 (as i merged some in the back that weren't really showing very well. danggit

-J

[Marcus Dublin]

If you ever find yourself bored on a rainy day I’d open up the image file and play with adding the texture detail you may have intended. I find myself doing this on some old pieces I still care about and before you know it you have completed your masterpiece! It was inspiring to see your workflow through out from gathering references to the modeling process, etc. Hopefully you don’t have the tech issues with your future works and I’ll be on the lookout for what you have to offer in the future!:)

Marcus

PS: I’d love to tackle something like this along the lines of the Akira reference you have, it would be interesting to play with that direction if you wanted to sculpt a bit as well!

[Antimagic]

Nice work. Congrats on finishing. It looks like you missed out on a few details, but I think this is expected in a short comp like this. At least now you have a solid foundation to make something truly great in the future! Hope to see you in more comps.