Which school and why?

[BuroKun]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8340/ehpa6.jpg

Which one is the best. Pros and Cons. What do you all have to say?

[confracto]

here's what I know of the ones in vancouver

Vanarts: don't know much actually, not really heard anything good or bad.

VFS: very expensive...and all the reels I've seen out of there are good, but look rather cookie cutter. I've heard some bad things about some of their film porgrams too...(like people who could have saved their 10k, and bought the textbook themselves and done it that way).

The Art Institute: DO NOT GO HERE. I've heard a lot of people who hate this place, and several senior people at game companies locally who say they'll never hire grads from here.

(unlisted here, but also in vancouver)

Capilano College:(where I went) An ok program...they have a 2 year 2d animation program as well, if you were interested purely in animation.


Think Tank: Don't know much about it, but sounds interesting.

[SuperOstrich]

The Art Institute: DO NOT GO HERE. I've heard a lot of people who hate this place, and several senior people at game companies locally who say they'll never hire grads from here.

I can't imagine a professional in the industry looking at a quality reel and deciding against the candidate because of the school they went to. To be honest, when it comes to 3d art, I usually ignore the education altogether. All I care about is the quality of the portfolio and the attitude/personality of the candidate. Period.

[ThatDon]

I can attest to this as I'm proof ;)

[confracto]

I don't mean to say that there aren't exceptions...simply that I would not recomend the school AT ALL, and that the quality of reels that comes out of there in general is very poor. an awesome artist is an awesome artist, yes, no matter what school they go to, I'm simply saying this one isn't worth borokun's time.

[SuperOstrich]

I was simply commenting on your statement that "and several senior people at game companies locally who say they'll never hire grads from here."

Anybody in charge of hiring that follows that line of thinking is acting extremely unprofessional.

[BuroKun]

Hey guys. Thanks for your input.
All I care about is the quality of the portfolio and the attitude/personality of the candidate. Period.
I know most companies are like this, but I just want to get the "best bang for my buck" if you get what I'm saying.

[SuperOstrich]

I totally agree. I'm sorry to have jumped in on your thread and seemingly confused you on this. You should pick the school that you feel you'll get the best education at after doing all your research. I was merely commenting that to an employer, the name of the school is irrlevent. Only the quality of the work.

To be more on-topic to your original question: If I were in the market for an art education these days, I'd most likely skip the art schools altogether and find a university with a good reputation for fine art. Simple as that. Most art schools simply don't provide a very good game art curriculum, and in the end you usually spend a significant amount more than you would for a fine art degree from a university. I'd spend my school time working on my fine art, and my personal time applying what I've learned in fine art towards personal digital art.

[BuroKun]

To be more on-topic to your original question: If I were in the market for an art education these days, I'd most likely skip the art schools altogether and find a university with a good reputation for fine art. Simple as that. Most art schools simply don't provide a very good game art curriculum, and in the end you usually spend a significant amount more than you would for a fine art degree from a university. I'd spend my school time working on my fine art, and my personal time applying what I've learned in fine art towards personal digital art.

I agree with you on this one. I am looking to do mainly game art, but would also like to know the basics, if not all, of the other game making processes to enhance my work. Because if I know how the game will use a model then I can make it more optimized and still function perfectly.

[oracle]

I did my time at Full Sail, and since day one I've heard everything from "Wow, what an amazing school" to "Wow, what a terrible school."

In my situation, it was a place I could go to learn a great deal about digital art in a short period of time (for a large sum of money). Yes, I could've taught myself, but at the time I wanted to jump right in, and teaching myself the same amount of information would've taken years.

I learned the most from the community there - teachers, yes, but lab techs and other students were a tremendous asset. It's very True that what you put into your art (and just about anything in life) directly affects what you get out of it. I had classmates who floated through without pushing themselves, and classmates who worked like mad to do their best. Almost all of the people who worked crazy hard now have jobs in the industry, in some cases at companies where there is a managerial bias against Full Sail.

If I were to start over, with the list of possibilities there, I'd probably start with the Big Brother program before I hit a traditional school. I didn't go to school to get a degree - that was incidental. I wanted the knowledge, and GA has that in spades. If you want a degree, it's a different story, but you may not find a 1 on 1 program like this anywhere else (and it costs less than comparable college courses).

No, Fred didn't pay me to write this.

[confracto]

oh, I guess I should also mention. While I went to capilano college, really, I went simply to get myself put in a seat, and have someone tell me there's a deadline, and go create stuff. I learned almost nothing there, and didn't expect to, I just needed some motivation to create a good reel.

also, and while a lot of people say this, mods and mod teams are a good way to learn how to put game art into games.

also, I've found this article very helpful for very detailed specifics of what makes efficent mesh and why...though a lot of it is also programmer jargon.

http://www.ericchadwick.com/examples/provost/byf1.html

then again, I'm getting off topic as well...

[los]

By far AAU in San Francisco, the 3d building is in the same building as the Fashion design chicks. *hot*

[tiekmir]

I can't imagine a professional in the industry looking at a quality reel and deciding against the candidate because of the school they went to. To be honest, when it comes to 3d art, I usually ignore the education altogether. All I care about is the quality of the portfolio and the attitude/personality of the candidate. Period.

I am very happy to here this. I went to the Art Institute of Portland for a Bachelors of Science in Game Art and Design. I feel that I got a very good education there. I previously had come from a traditional art background but knew nothing about 3D modeling or texturing. I now feel that I am very competent in Maya and ZBrush thanks to them. Regardless, I was told from people that many companies would not hire graduates from the AI because of the poor quality of the curriculum(which is very incorrect). That made me very worried. I am glad to hear that we will judged not on the school but on the quality of work that we produce.

I also want to ask a question of my own SuperOstrich. it is kind of off topic, but kind of not. You have said that you ignore eduction all to together when you hire for an open position. Yet when I look at open position on Gamasutra and other job boards many of the ads ask for a Bachelors Degree. What is the deal? Is a degree important or not? Does it give an edge to someone over another person of the same artistic skill level?

[SuperOstrich]

In my experience, having a degree as an artist doesn't give you an edge. The quality of the portfolio is easily the #1 factor. Personality and overall attitude would be #2.

I'm giving you my experience from the companies I've worked for. There are probably some companies out there that may look at your education a bit more in-depth than in my experience, but I doubt it.

An artist with a killer reel and no degree is going to get more attention than an artist with a decent reel and a degree. Period. The schooling is more for your benefit, a place to learn. It is pretty much irrelevant to employers in this industry. Why they list it on their job ads is silly, because I guarantee you they hardly pay attention to that aspect of the applicant. I've applied for and gotten jobs at companies that list it in their ads too, and not once did they ask about my education.

For the record, I became a game artist about 5 months out of high school and didn't go to college.

[tiekmir]

So are you saying that going to an art college for learning Maya, ect. is a waste of time then? I hope I did not get into debt for nothing. :( I did learn a lot though. I don't know if I could have learned this much about Maya on my own.

[SuperOstrich]

I'm not saying it's a waste of time at all. If you got what you wanted out of it (knowledge and skill that can help you build a good portfolio), then it definitely wasn't a waste.. I'm just saying that an employer isn't going to be concerned about the line in your resume about which school you went to. They're going to look right past that part and look at the portfolio itself. If the portfolio is good and you felt your time at school helped you build that portfolio, then by no means did you waste any time or money. Although I still say art schools are way overpriced in general.

[tiekmir]

That is good to hear. Again it all comes down to portfolio. I know what I do because of my school so I suppose you are right. I am going to post some my work soon so I guess you can judge how much I learned whilst at school. I tossed my school portfolio and am building it from the ground up again. I just feel that I can do better now.

That and all colleges are over priced. You should see my sisters student loans for a degree in Anthropology. Now that is scary.

[BuroKun]

I agree with you all on the game art parts, but what about the programing and design part? Thats the thing I would like to learn. I will be doing art but I want to know about the other stuff too. I learned the Art programs on my own but I need to learn the rest so which school is best for that?

[tiekmir]

BuroKun, from what I have been told in regards to programming, go to a normal Computer Science program at a good school. Learn C++ till you can do it in your sleep. What school have good degree programs for CS?

As for Game Design I have learned from observing through articles on Gamasutra/Game Developers Mag./ect. that this is not something one learn from a school. It is learned from experience on the job. Game design is the hardest part of the process of making a game, from what I

Also of note, not many companies have programmers do art or vice versa.

But that is just my two cents adjusted for inflation....

[milfus]

hi, im new, I should read stuff before I ask random questions

[tiekmir]

Hello milfus, welcome to the forums.

[KamuiTenshi]

In terms of schools, i doing fine going to this one program this one community collage has (Piedmont Community Collage over in Yancyville NC. Reason being is that i'm learning the basics of several industry (well some gaming but mostly movie) standard programs (Maya, Aftereffects, FinalCut). Also you do 2 classes where you work on an animated project with a team of people, plus a portfolio review class. For the price, its worth it. (well for me at least)

But i'm agreeing with SuperOstrich on the general art education. Heck major in art at a university with a good art program, buy the student versions of Maya or Max, and then start doing tutorials or instructional DVDs.

[milfus]

thanks =0)

sorry about that, I just hate it when theres like a question thats allready been answered.

on topic so as not to hi-jack, I am pretty new, just got into drawing and painting, though I have some serious books and I have been really dedicating time, school just isn't an option for me because I have nerve damage. The nerve damage is bad enough that I couldnt be graded for penmanship in school, and a straight line is just impossible for me, but I have the book knowledge and as much as I was struggling drawing, I found digital painting lets me redo my lines so I can get decent result.

I am really glad to hear its more portfolio based, just because I absolutely cannot do a line drawing to save my life, I have to rough them and then finish by painting, so I would flunk out of an art school in my first class, though im fully there mentally, angles, negative spaces, lights and shadows, gestalt, just motor functions are a bit sub par so it takes me more work. I am a master producer allready from berklee but I have aspirations of making 3d cartoons one day and I actually followed poop's site to here. I am just astounded by the level of talent here, and will probably end up lurking and watching you all, trying to figure out how you do everything so dang pretty.

[milfus]

oh yeah, I left out sorry, my training is pretty much from betty edwards books and I use maya (me and a bunch of friends pooled money for a site liscence) so I have done like 90 hours of the digital tutors books, but thats about it, Im here to kind of spy work flows and pick up tips and things, my main focus is still music, cause it pays the bills (I mainly do tv and film instrumentals, im the DUN DUN DUNNNN violins) but yeah, if any of ya need some music, or are having trouble with a song, hit me up.

[Gavin]

Hey man, I can't really add much more to what's been said. I disliked my schooling, but I know plenty of people enjoyed theirs, so I guess it all depends on the person as much as the school. Just listen to Ostrich :D

I'm just wondering why you want to learn all of the areas? It may be out of place to say, but if you think you're comfortable with art, I'd say stick with that and just try to get a job in the industry doing that. Once you're in, you'll most likely be exposed to other areas like level design, game design, etc. So, a lot of that knowledge will rub off on you and, if you're interested in it, could probably develop the ability further. I think it's pretty hard to "do it all" on your own, unless you're planning on making a living doing dinky casual games or something. Knowing a little bit about everything isn't necessarily a good thing, I'd suggest specializing in one area.

Gav

[tiekmir]

I agree with Gavin. Find what you love and get really good at it. That is what I am doing. Just mastering 3D Modeling and Texturing takes enough of my time. I can't imagine trying to master other areas of game development too.

[milfus]

I dunno for me, I spend a lot of time doing music bids, I am learning to draw and model as an escape from music, for when I have to rest my ears and stuff, I figured it would make a great alternate because its just as rewarding and by the time my eyes get stressed I can swap back to music, so both are an escape from the other, both are productive and rewarding.

[tiekmir]

Well music is a huge part of games. So there is always room for people with music skills in the gaming world. It conceivable that you could apply those skills to the gaming industry.

[milfus]

yeah i am basicly trying to get paid twice, I am not gonna lie about it, but hey, If i can do quality work in both areas, why not, they know they can trust me from the first job

[BuroKun]

Hey guys, you have said lots of good things here. I agree with just about everything that was overall said. to be honest I didn't learn to much from this topic but it did reassure what to do so it helped lots.

thanks all ^^

[Arkadius]

Yeah I told have been beating my brains out about what to do about school, I was looking into SMU guildhall Any one heard any good/bad things about it? I will be attending the open house on Saturday.

[otto]

I have only seen good things about Guildhall on various boards, but I haven't attended there.

[Arkadius]

Well i guess I can bring back pictures and tell of my experience on Saturday if anyone is interested.

[Vikkie]

what I got from my university experience;

pros:
-Met great people, both faculty and friends, and now working on projects with both.
-Had my works got into exhibitons thanks to my professors.
-Learned a LOT due to my degree is a multidiciplinary badass one. (Visual Arts and Visual Communication Design [video editing, motion graphics, 3D, 2D animation, basic design, actionscript, graphic design]).
-I entered with an all-tuition scholarship, I don't pay a dime.

cons:
-Lost a lot of weight.
-I sleep around 3 hours a day for the last two years.
-Too much road, everyday.
-Ridicilous amount of homeworks at certain semesters.
-Can't find the time to make an awesome 3D specific portfolio.
-Haven't had a vacation for five years.

conclusion:
I would do it again :mugs:

As for the schools listed, I've read good things about VanArts' 2D animation program.

addition:


Knowing a little bit about everything isn't necessarily a good thing, I'd suggest specializing in one area.


I'm with Gavin, also if you want to know a good deal about everything, you might be putting your health on the line providing that you rush it. Exactly what he said, stick with one thing and the other stuff will be rubbed on you later :)