Freelance Work??

[El Scorcho]

I'm going to be doing some freelance work, until I get a definative yes or no answer from Id Software. Seems like aloooot of people are applying there, so it might be a while before I hear anything.

Anyway I was wondering if I could get some advice on offsite freelancing from you guys. I've never done it before and I have some questions. The main one being, how do you get paid? I've heard of paypal, but don't know much about it. Are there other methods for payment? The other question is should I charge in increments? If so how much? In thirds or halfs?.

I'd really appreciate any advice you guys could give me:)

[Gavin]

Hey man,

I'm just coming off of a 10 month stint doing freelance (going back to a studio in June.) I always deal in US currency, even in the state it is, as it's an easy constant. I've always just got checks delivered in the mail or direct deposit into my bank account. Some companies have that setup easy enough...some actually require it. I've never used Paypal, I believe they ding you for transactions...so they take a small cut. I'd rather just have the money sent directly. I've never had anyone shaft me and have never had anything stolen in the mail or anything, the only problem I've had is waiting.

It would be smart to charge in increments if it is possible, a retainer, hitting an important part (such as completing the model) and then finish.

I've always kept track of what is going on for my payments through Excel, just tracking the project, client, daily/hourly wage, time spent on asset, amount owing and status of asset (Percentage for me, waiting for payment / paid for them.) Then the final payments are all added together at the end with a 35% deduction (maybe different for you Americans) But basically that gives me an idea of how much I am earning, automatically shows what I owe for taxes come tax time and gives me a better idea of what my "actual" pay is.

Hope this helps,
Gav

[MM]

there is paypal, wire transfer to bank account number, western union or check by mail. i prefer paypal since it only involves one email address for transaction. but not all companies use it. wire transfer is another good method but. both paypal and wire transfer has certail fees. paypal has a 3% fee and different banks have different transfer fees, but those fees can easily be included in your payment. i prefer this way, since paypal and wires are efficient and i dont have to wait for mail.

most of the the time those payment method and timing depends on teh company. big companies usually have their own method that you will most likely have to abide by.

i would generally ask for 50% up front. some companies have monthly invoice system, you give them an invoice and they process the payment.

[ZIVIXcn]

umm, about payment, i use instalment whatever paypal, bank code or check is ok.
First payment for 1/3, 1/3 while the work almost finishd, the rest should be completed within a month after the work has done.

[b1ll]

no MM, thats not true, the payment method are urs to choose.Like hell u will abide to someone else for that. sorry but Noo.

For me I used Wiretransfer, Safe and fast, yes there is a fees to be paid, u can include thoses fees in ur pricing or not. Wire transfer is great for larger amount, and also, its faster if you want Payment upfront, in the middle and at the final.

Checks are fine to, takes longers.

Honestly paypal is not interesting for me, Feel cheaper, and Honestly not very professional.i prefer to trust my own bank. Easier when u have a problem.

Having Upfront , middle and final payment is up to you.

I ask for a 25% upfront when its a new client i have never worked before.
Or when its for a large amount of characters/long lasting contract.

ANyway. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me.

ben

[El Scorcho]

Gavin, MM, ZIVIXcn, b1ll: thanks so much for the advice guys:)

Looks like I'll be using wire transfer, because my bank doesn't seem charge fees so long as it's U.S Currency.

[Mike_K]

I would love to hear how you guys go about getting started doing freelance work. What sort of time constraints and pay is involved for the average asset? What sort of assets do companies get freelancers working on? Everything really :P thanks!

[funkdelic]

and I would love hearing how can I get some freelance? applying to a job, sending emails offering freelance work? I know that experience and a good portfolio is essential, but we got to have a way to get there, so what do you guys do ?

[EricElwell]

Networking is key. To find new clients I will often send out emails to help wanted ads posted abroad the net, but these are mostly ineffective. I do get some contracts this way, but it is nothing compared to knowing someone face to face. If you have an in at a company, you are likely to get the contract before they ever bother posting a help wanted ad. Many companies build up a pool of artists that they contact. That being said, a lot of help wanted ads are from new/inexperienced companies, or established companies who's pool of artists are largely unavailable for work. That has been my experience.

So get your face out there and meet people, IGC, GDC, workshops, whatever. Work at a studio, meet friends of friends from other studios, because for one, this is your community, and in terms of business.. you want to be in that company's "pool of artists"

As far as what companies ask for... Really it comes down to two things, as I see it.

1: What the company doesn't have time for

2: what the company doesn't have the expertise in.

(Generally it's the first)

[Gavin]

Yeah, what Eric said. I found a lot of my work came from word of mouth, Through friends and having my stuff seen online. I've applied for a few things, but never just cold called someone.

Time constraints and pay seem to change with each project for me, but the pay is really up to you and what you'll settle for. There's a saying, i think it goes, "You can have it cheap, you can have it perfect and you can have it fast...pick two."

The workload itself, Eric is pretty much on target, the better you are the more you'll probably get to focus on the area you want. b1ll, for example, has French artists suckling at his teet to get some of his talent, where as a new comer to the industry may have to settle on making smaller props and stuff. I've found that my stint as a freelancer, although it was awesome, didn't allow me the freedom that I had dreamed up in my head. If anything, I worked a lot more. When I wasn't working, I was trying to set things up, researching new things, talking to clients...like always being on call. That may just be my personality, but it's just not all dancing and singing into toothbrushes.

Good luck!
Gav

[benclark]

and I would love hearing how can I get some freelance? applying to a job, sending emails offering freelance work? I know that experience and a good portfolio is essential, but we got to have a way to get there, so what do you guys do ?

All of my freelance work has come from posting in finished work galleries on forums, here and CGtalk have both landed me work. I've only been working freelance for a year but the best advice I can give is to whore your work around everywhere, present it well and make yourself easy to contact.

Like gavin said its not as fun as I thought it would be. For someone like myself who has no studio experience be prepared to do LODs and physics meshes. I'm guessing people want to see if you can produce to a deadline and are reliable before they let you at the good stuff

I use Paypal for all my work. From my experience its never caused any major problems, although it does take a few days to convert it into real cashmoney which can be a pain

[Kalango]

Just a lit. maybe stupid qs:
what is better to make living? freelance or studio? -.-'

[Gavin]

For making a living, studio. But it really all depends. I don't think there's a perfect answer for everyone. Based on your location, it could be very difficult to get into a studio that pays decently, based on your skill level it could be difficult to get anything but low paying contracts or junior positions in house.

Both can be done, obviously, but the thing with freelancing is that it all comes back to you. You'll have to market yourself, get work for yourself, pay your own taxes, take care of all your insurance (etc.) Basically, there is a lot more responsibilities on you rather than "just" doing the work.

As much as I enjoyed freelancing, i think studio life is a lot more stable and predictable..."better" to make a living, I guess. But that's me and my own personal experiences...

[EricElwell]

Yeah, I would totally echo that. I freelance for the lifestyle, not for the money. For me, it is cut and dry. I make enough to live, and spend my time doing the things I care about. I will say though, I could definitely push harder and line more work up if I wanted the extra income, but at this point (at least the past 2 years of my life) it has been more advantageous to have my time, and not extra change.

That being said, my non-artist volunteer work is coming to an end and I will most likely be applying for a studio position come autumn, because it is more stable and the experience is quite different and beneficial. (not 100% on it, but I am weighing my options).

I have only experienced studio work for 8 months interning at GG, but it is what has kick-started my career. Especially in the small studio setting, I was able to sit down and talk with seasoned vets and immediately put into practice new techniques for real products. When you freelance, you have to be self-driven to learn new things, and many times you have to implement it on non-paying personal projects which can progress too casually with no one forcing you to push harder and go farther. It's not impossible, but it's not for everyone; and I firmly believe that the only things making freelance work for me are the principles I picked up from Joe Maruschak, the art director at GG at the time.


Maybe not the most relevant, but if you are mapping out your course in game art, consider these things. Take stepping stone to stepping stone. Develop the discipline and build a network if you are going freelance. I found that this was best done in studio. So you may need a healthy balance as you chart your career course.


on a side: Gavin, I didn't realize you had worked on Legions. That's cool! I did a little texture for the bot, not a favorite of my work but it was fun. :)

[Kalango]

hmmm nice to know, thanks btw. I was in doubt because many of you have been working with freelance as far as i know, and like poop, some quit studios to go freelance, so i had an different idea about it. Tho i'm making/'ve made some unpaind "exeprience work" to some contacts and i was thinking about freelance when i build my folio...thanks for sharing dudes.
Maybe not the most relevant, but if you are mapping out your course in game art, consider these things. Take stepping stone to stepping stone. Develop the discipline and build a network if you are going freelance. I found that this was best done in studio. So you may need a healthy balance as you chart your career course.
Thnaks Eric! i'll remeber that...

[the_podman]

You probably already know this, but you should make sure you get a signed "contract" before starting any asset work. I have an advantage that my girlfriend is an attorney, so she can decrypt some of the law "mumbo jumbo" on those things. There is nothing wrong with demanding a contract before you start on anything, even if it means a delay of a day or two. I personally know some people that have gotten screwed on unpayed work and they can do nothing about it because they only had "verbal" word of payment.

When I freelanced for Activision, I asked for a contract and they were more than happy to provide it. That way there is no mix up with payment amount, hours worked, etc. Everything will go smoother.

-Rod

[b1ll]

Freelance more for the lifestyle then money? What.
That could not be any more WRONG.

If you want freelance to be ur job/career. then u have to stop seing it as a vacation at home. Its a business.

Calender/schedule/deadline/ Plan your day, ur weeks, months. Book ur calender, work to get your client, PR PR and PR. its not just making Art. its a business, a sucessful freelancer can make 2-3-4-5 Time more $$$ then inhouse.

NOOBS! DO IT RIGHT.

[Parnell]

Freelance more for the lifestyle then money? What.
That could not be any more WRONG.

If you want freelance to be ur job/career. then u have to stop seing it as a vacation at home. Its a business.

Calender/schedule/deadline/ Plan your day, ur weeks, months. Book ur calender, work to get your client, PR PR and PR. its not just making Art. its a business, a sucessful freelancer can make 2-3-4-5 Time more $$$ then inhouse.

NOOBS! DO IT RIGHT.

Best response EVAR
B

[the_podman]

Well I hope b1ll's "PR" skills are better than his attitude towards us. lol. Perhaps you went freelance because of your stellar "people" skills.

[Parnell]

Well I hope b1ll's "PR" skills are better than his attitude towards us. lol. Perhaps you went freelance because of your stellar "people" skills.

I think B1ll gave great advice. With freelance it's all up to you to get work. If you can't get enough work or enough money, it's no one else's fault but your own. Some people will do it better than others, and some people will enjoy it better that others.
B1ll summed it up and I think his people skills are fine.
Now let's get back to making sweet art!
B

[the_podman]

I'm not questioning his advice. In fact, it's very sound and logical. It's his constant need to end all of his posts with something childish like "NOOBS! DO IT RIGHT." or "douchebags". I've talked to many HR people at game companies(part of my job) and they've come across many extremely talented artists that didn't get work or keep work in a "studio" environment simply because they could not work well with colleagues.. It's different if you're speaking to your art director or your communicating on the phone/email with the people cutting your checks, obviously you are going to act "professional" around them.

I'm from NYC, I'm used to "attitude."... But I don't care how talented an artist someone is, it doesn't give them an automatic license to act like a d*ck.

Just my humble opinion.

[tokidokizenzen]

I'm not questioning his advice. In fact, it's very sound and logical. It's his constant need to end all of his posts with something childish like "NOOBS! DO IT RIGHT." or "douchebags". I've talked to many HR people at game companies(part of my job) and they've come across many extremely talented artists that didn't get work or keep work in a "studio" environment simply because they could not work well with colleagues.. It's different if you're speaking to your art director or your communicating on the phone/email with the people cutting your checks, obviously you are going to act "professional" around them.

I'm from NYC, I'm used to "attitude."... But I don't care how talented an artist someone is, it doesn't give them an automatic license to act like a d*ck.

Just my humble opinion.

I don't know about you but if an interviewee called ME a douchebag i'd hire him on the spot.

[iworkat]

NOOB?

I don't think it was meant as a slap in the face... and if it was, well it hurt a little, and is motivation to get it together!!!

The reason so many people can't afford to freelance is because we do sometimes get short sighted and get more concerned with taking "something" as pay instead of negotiating for what the job is really worth... I've done it... and I shouldn't do it... It makes it worst for the next artist...

[EricElwell]

Yeah, I would agree that you absolutely need to treat it like a business (because it is), but my reasons for contracting have nothing to do with money, and much more to do with my flexibility with time. If I make enough to live, and have more time to be a part of the things I value, that is what I will do. It's a fine balance if you're willing to walk it.

[the_podman]

I'm constantly getting "lowballed" when it comes to contract pay. The trick is to ask for slightly more than you would normally, that way when they make an offer it'll be just right. Lack of health care sucks, but that's the tradeoff.

Also, it's very important when estimating the completion timeframe to the contractor, that you add on several hours or even a full day of "cushion" time. This will cover any hurdles and mistakes that may arise or even the occasional "crash". It's even more important if you are doing more of the character pipeline than modeling/texturing.

Skinning/Rigging requires very specific guidelines like how many bones per vert influence, maximum bone count, orientation rules, rotation only joints, etc... The more detailed info you get before you start, the better. MEL has also really helped me out will speeding up tedious processes.

-Rod

[tokidokizenzen]

My reasons have some to do with money but as ErikElwell stated, more to do with time.

On a sort of related note: If you're a full time contractor don't forget to pay quarterlys this week!

the_podman - Sorry to hear you're getting low balled all the time. It's in my opinion a good signal of the type of people/company you're dealing with.

Just for the record I agree with B1ll 100%. In case anyone thought my last comment was a snide remark.

[El Scorcho]

You probably already know this, but you should make sure you get a signed "contract" before starting any asset work.

Does a printed signature count? I'm currently doing work for an outsourcing studio and they email me contracts stating the project name, details, start time and payment amout. It also has the the name of the company and the outsourcing manager's name printed on it. The've payed me so far but, your post scares me a little.

On a sort of related note: If you're a full time contractor don't forget to pay quarterlys this week!

What are quarterlys, is that some Non U.S thing? I thought taxes were only payed once a year at April.

On similar note, the client I'm currently working for stated that 15-30 business days is the standard wait time for payment. Is that true or is he just screwing with me? That seems like a ridiculus amount of time to simply wire money.

[Marcus Dublin]

El Scorcho: Does a printed signature count? I'm currently doing work for an outsourcing studio and they email me contracts stating the project name, details, start time and payment amount. It also has the the name of the company and the outsourcing manager's name printed on it. The've payed me so far but, your post scares me a little.

Marcus: Chances are since your working for an outsourcing firm you've already received and signed a formal contract. Contracts don't always look the same so you may have mistaken one of the forms as something else. Just make sure to look over your paper work to see which document specifies the terms and if your still not sure contact the HR lead and find out! By the way the client and not the other way around usually supply contracts so you should be fine in this regard.

El Scorcho: What are quarterlys, is that some Non U.S thing? I thought taxes were only payed once a year at April.

Marcus: Quarterly’s are "very real" and they apply to all US citizens filing a 1040ES! For the most part you'll have to file a quarterly statement to the US treasury based on "estimated revenues" you made for any particular quarter. As a matter of fact the last quarter ended a few days ago so the new one will end sometime in September. On the flip side this only effects you if you haven't filled out a W-9 form with your current outsourcing firm. Chances are though they sent you some tax documents that alleviate you from having to worry about quarterly’s. Now I'm not sure how long you plan on freelancing but if you find yourself getting your own clients and stepping away from the outsourcing firm then Quarterly’s will effect you since the clients will not be responsible for any tax with holdings. In that case I would contact an accountant to find out a little more on how it works and how it'll affect you come tax time.

El Scorcho: On similar note, the client I'm currently working for stated that 15-30 business days is the standard wait time for payment. Is that true or is he just screwing with me? That seems like a ridiculus amount of time to simply wire money.

Marcus: Well this is true with some of the bigger outsourcing firms, you'll only get paid 15 or so days after the asset is completed and approved! Of course if you have your own clients then you can get paid right away. For instance I've culled together my own clients so I get to set the pricing and payment terms, which means I get 50% upfront and another 50% when the asset has been approved. All in all you’re dancing to the same beat as everyone else who works for the firm so you'll just have to live with it.

Anyways I hope that I was able to answer some of your questions, good luck!

[El Scorcho]

Cool thanks Marcus I'm such a noob :)