a "joke" from sega?? O.o

[Styx]

ok...today visit a friend. he BUY the (new) game"the incredible hulk" for the PC.
after installing i see a nightmare.....it hurts...realy
WTF?
seriously, is this a full price game?

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage01.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage02.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage03.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage04.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage05.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage06.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage07.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage08.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage09.png

http://xxmurphyxx.xx.funpic.de/anderes/hulk/Zwischenablage10.png

[nazeil]

wow. that is pretty bad. well maybe not bad, so much as really old. really old. except for Hulk, he looks pretty current gen.

[Styx]

@nazeil
the characters in the game have NO normalmapping or other shaders.
the animations are...ok.
but its the enviorment...
sry...but i made half life maps that looks better.
every street is the same, there are...4-5 (?) different textures.
all buildings are blocks or dont have more than 30 tris.
sry but im shocked.

[Kalango]

Where did you friend bought this? Lol the environment looks like "Die Hard" for PSX...lol.

[BuroKun]

;.; thats just sad.

EDIT: Gametrailers review (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35304.html)

[cookepuss]

Is this REALLY what you want to do with your thread? Seriously? Oh, well. Your dime. ;)

By and large, I don't don't buy games that tie into any movie. For the most part, they're usually this bad. Companies take the license, do minimal work or rush to meet a deadline, and go out to reap a quick buck. It's not really anything new. Companies have been doing it since before the industry crash of the 80's (eg. ET) and they're probably going to do it long after.

Finding a high quality tie-in game is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You might find the needle eventually, but you've got to wade through a crap load of lousy hay first.

Companies are always going to look for the easy way out. What's more unusual here is your surprise that a movie tie-in looks, and probably plays, this poorly. Sega is not above shovelware.

What I do find odd is that the promo videos, irrc, looked somewhat better than this. Maybe those related to non-PC platforms though.

[EricElwell]

I would agree that a good tie-in game is like a needle in a haystack, only.. when you actually find the needle, you'll realize that it's made of cheap plastic... from china.

I am trying to think of a good tie-in game that i'd played awhile back... still searching the memory banks.. maybe tie fighter, XvT, jedi-knight? but those are a real stretch since they don't have any of the same starwars characters.

[YdoUwant2know]

Chronicles of Riddick for the xbox is about the only good movie game I've ever seen. Well, that and 007 Golden Eye for the N64.

It's sad what they put out there. That said, I don't think it is always the game companies just trying to make a quick buck. A lot of the time it is the movie company that wants to make a fast dollar.

A lot of movie companies that license there products expect way too much and do not realize that just because they can make a movie in a few months does not mean the same is possible with games.

[Kalango]

Yeah golden eye was one of the best....But this...this and Ironman...man..
EDIT: As for the gametrailer, it looks more "complete", tought it realy seems that they rushed it out...starting with all those colision bugs....seems like they had no beta tester or something....

[cookepuss]

A lot of movie companies that license there products expect way too much and do not realize that just because they can make a movie in a few months does not mean the same is possible with games.
True. As bad as this seems though, we should be thankful that games have gotten more complex to make, even the bad ones. Just look how bad the licensed material was that was pumped out during the pre-3D days:

Avoid the Noid, Cool Spot, Transformers NES (Japanese), Back to the Future I & II+III, Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, True Lies, Total Recall, Punisher, Captain America & the Avengers, Silver Surfer, Justice League, Wolverine Adamantium Rage, X-Men NES, X-Men Madness in Murderworld, Spider-Man/X-Men: Arcade's Revenge, 75% of the GB Spider-Man series, X-Men 2: Fall of the Mutants, Questprobe Hulk, Questprobe Spider-Man, 90% of the Simpsons' games, ET, and probably a bazillion other abused licenses.

I can probably name the great licensed games on one or two hands. I'd need a full database for the bad ones.

Again, thank your lucky stars that distribution ready games can't be made in 2 weeks anymore. You'd see far more bad licensed games now that there are more developers.

EDIT>>> Sadly, I have just about every one of those crappy games I've listed. I must enjoy pain. :)

[Kickflipkid687]

Wow.. that looks... horrible.. just horrible. Our college game and an individual game I made looks much better than that.

I also agree on the comment on Iron man.. just horrible.... I really really wish they would stop with the movie/game release thing they are doing now, but it's money and money gooooood.

[pablobox]

you don't understand this is real state of art engine for ds..that can expand the ds screen up to the 1024x768 in software it's incredible...ok now stop joking....is it maybe so fun to be so outdated in enviroments and to be however a masterpiece?ahaha...i said stop joking ok now really stop.

[warrior21]

maybe your friend has the highest settings turned off in the game. you never know.

[cookepuss]

I wonder if there are any assets being shared across platforms. Something about those pics seems...off. The only reason why I mention is that Marvel.com is showing off pics to the game, the lower end Wii version at that, which show the game in an entirely different light.

http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3841new_storyimage2687319_full.jpg
http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3841new_storyimage2687215_full.jpg
http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3841new_storyimage2687377_full.jpg
http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3841new_storyimage2687307_full.jpg
http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3841new_storyimage2687395_full.jpg

Even with different teams, you'd think that quality control would be tighter. Especially since they've got to advertise these things in tandem. What you're showing up top looks much closer to a test build than a final or even release candidate. Weird.

[cookepuss]

The quality in the original post also doesn't match these: http://media.pc.ign.com/media/900/900974/imgs_2.html or these: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/theincrediblehulk/images.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=images;all

These ARE from the PC version, at least according to IGN and Gamespot.

[Marcus Dublin]

I know this may sound silly but did you crank up all of the settings? You may have the game running on low spec!:inocent:

[cookepuss]

Even so, with LOD cranked all the way down, something about the art direction & HUD doesn't seem consistent with what's supposed to be the final product. I believe what he's telling us, but something screams "developer build" to me.

[BiG ToE]

it's yelling "old" to me. Like if he picked up the game from the first movie, knowing how Best Buy likes to place old versions of a movie on sale when the new version comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened here.

Can't tell you how mnany times I've walked in to buy a movie and got home to find out I just purchased the old movie in a new box. ok I can tell you, but I wont. OK, twice. I did it twice.

[BiG ToE]

yep, yep, just looked it up and the game your boy got is called THE HULK, like the name of the first movie.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/DJBiGToE/2397735831_0154d48fb8_o.jpg

[cookepuss]

Yeah, but the HUD and character design are from the current game not the old.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/image_viewer/frame_lead.php?pid=944982&img=8#view_full_size

If this is a LOD thing then it's the worst sort of LOD scaling ever. I had heard that the env work was significantly inferior to the character stuff, but that's just ridiculous. Maybe it's just the low LOD combined with the sandbox design that's creating the barren look to the top pics. Either way, there's no excuse for the shoddy texture work. I doubt that even half the newbies here would mess that stuff up, at least not without putting up a fight.

[cookepuss]

The old (2003) game for comparison's sake.

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/thehulk/0602/hulk_screen022.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2003/news/04/24/vivendi/hulk_screen006.jpg

[butt_sahib]

JEEEZAZ....those pics puss put up for the actual game just gave me a boner

[BiG ToE]

sorry I wrote it down wrong, The Hulk is the game above that Cookepuss is showing, But HULK is the game we are all questioning and getting confused with The Incredible Hulk. 3 different games, almost the same name.

[blankslatejoe]

good grief, thats confusing, bigtoe

[LowRez]

Hmm Well I got my free copy of Hulk on 360 earlier this week, a perk for working for a sega studio we get every game free.

The 360 ones pretty decent for a film tie in, I was fairly surprised, normally film tie ins fail on all aspects but this is pretty nice overall. for a kid im sure its good enough fun and pretty enough looking, the destruction is pretty cool, and you can smash any buildings and vehicles and prop when your the hulk its pretty cool

[Styx]

ok, about the different games:
the screen big toe have postet is the "old" hulk game.
but there are 2 different versiones of the "new" game to.

first an better looking version
---------------------------
PS3
XBOX360
---------------------------

the worst looking version
---------------------------
PS2
PC
WII
---------------------------

The Version of my friend is the pc version (PS2 port).
there are NO shaders in the Game.
NO graphical options menu.
the only possible option is to change the resolution of the game, outside of the game.

my problem is NOT that it is an ps2 port, i have a problem with the graphical details.
The Buildings are blocks or have a HL1 look.
i never see uglyer buildings in a PS2 game befor O.o
sry...but the "environment artist" of this game must be the worst ever.....
there are MANY older games out there with much better looking buildings...or trees or textures.
its a shame that THIS is the environment of a fullprice game.

btw, all the screens posted by cookepuss are from the video cutscenes.
this vids are "ingame" from the better looking version.
believe it or not.
the screens show NO lower graphic options, it is the PC version.

[blankslatejoe]

Hmmm..are you sure your friend doesn't have a pirated early build of the game? It certainly sounds like it, from the lack of options, shaders, and finished art. Most of the reviews for the PC version give it poor scores, but not as poor as those screenshots would warrant.

I know you said he bought it, but if so, wow...that's truly dreadful.

[Styx]

he has NO leak or something.....
the official "Hulk PC- The Feedback Thread" http://boards2.sega.com/sega_board/viewtopic.php?t=89905&sid=b88db0337e8608b0ab7aa56269f4fab8

posts from this thread:

Operating System: Windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit
Processor speed (optional): Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4Ghz
Ram (optional): 4GB
Video Card (optional): Nvidia 8800GTX 768 MB
Feedback about the product: Very disappointing i look around the internet before getting the game i was impressed by the graphics that was displayed but the game for PC is "ULGY" for a 2008 game SEGA has made the graphics like its the year 2000 like wtf there not even a settings option for this game.
Mad

Operating System: Microsoft XP 64bit and Windows Vista 32bit
Processor speed (optional):Core2 Duo @ 3.0 GHZ
Ram (optional):4GB
Video Card (optional):Nvidia Geforce 7900 GS and Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTX
Feedback about the product:

The game's advertisements are misleading in that the game for pc does not use any next-gen features such as pixel and vertex shaders.
Normal mapping and per pixel lighting which is enabled for the Xbox360 and PS3 is not enabled for the PC which is fully capable of these visual FX easily.
Too many graphical and animation bugs such as improperly rigged models (vertices on Hulk's pants and feet deform improperly when animated) and lots of freezups and crashes randomly through the game. PC should also have all the unlockable characters of the consoles versions as well. The sound is also unstable at times creating staticky noise during loud fight scenes.


see point 3-5

Operating System: Windows XP SP2
Processor speed (optional): Q6600 @ 2.4ghz
Ram (optional): 2GB Ballistix
Video Card (optional): GF 8800GTS 512MB G92

Feedback: As everyone else has stated, appalling graphics, terrible gameplay, buildings look awful when destroying them, movement is sluggish, controls don't work right and are confusing...not to mention the tearing...I get 270FPS on this game...wtf? I have to force Vsync

Suggestions:

1) Upgrade the graphics to 360 standard at least
2) Provide PC gamepad support for 360 pads and for RumblePad2 controllers
3) Add some graphics options to the game
4) Allow us to remap all of the controls
5) Seriously bring it up to standard with the console versions.

I beg you Sega...heed the advice of the community, even if its just the once!

[blankslatejoe]

wow, styx, thats crazy. I just looked around online some more too--that's so weird.

[Kickflipkid687]

Speaking of game titles confusion http://youtube.com/watch?v=OEVzPCY2T-g

[Kalango]

Just a random comment btw (off topic maybe)...
The same "crap" happens when you want to make a movie from a sucessfull game....Like Resident Evil... Mario Bros(this one was ridiculous) Double Dragon(geez!), Street Fighter and many more...the only one single movie i can remind of that was actualy cool was Silent Hill....and this one only ....

[cookepuss]

I agree. Most of those movies were indeed utter disasters. RE and Mario were somewhat watchable on the most brain dead level though. So bad that they're good, if you're a fan of bad movies.

However, for the most part, all those games are very two dimensional to begin with. As games.... fun as hell. As movie ideas.... meh.

The movie makers, as inept as they often are, try to cram in as much story to fill the gaps of what are (largely) story-less games. At the same time, they're assigned with the unenviable task of taking characters that are often quite ridiculous looking and making them accessible for non-gaming audiences.

Take Mario for example. Analyze it for a second.

- Short, fat Italian plumber with fairly limited grasp of the English language
- Travels through what are, presumably, magic sewer pipes
- Fights enemies such as flying turtles, animated bullets, a fire breathing tortoise/dragon thing, giant plants, and other LSD induced nightmares
- Gains magic powers such as fireballs & flying raccoon costumes
- Ingests "magic mushrooms" to grow, gain extra lives, or otherwise "power up" like Barry Bonds
- Rides a freakin' raptor
- Constantly rescuing a princess too stupid to break down & buy a .45 or take a self-defense class. :)

Really. Translate THAT into a movie. It'd be the dumbest sh** ever. :p

On a story level, you can't blame Hollywood too much for screwing up the likes of DOA or SF2. It's not like they had much to work with to begin with. Even when they DO have a solid story from the game itself, making it accessible to non-gamers is pretty tough.

As far as production values go... Very few video game movies have gotten it right, the closest being the Tomb Raider flicks. The RE movies have tried in their own way, but creating such a movie without entering into George Romero territory is tough.

On the other hand, you've got to wonder if Blanka could ever work on the big screen without looking totally stupid. It's no wonder why the new Street Fighter movie focuses solely on Chun-Li. Characters like Blanka & Dahlsim would look seriously bizarre. Plus, people would probably b***h to no end about the use of CG instead of practical effects.

Look at it this way, unless you're trying to translate a game that isn't totally ridiculous, Hollywood is always going to f*** it up. The best you can hope for is something that isn't totally embarrassing.

IMHO, as long as Uwe Boll stays away from it, there's some hope. Freakin' guy should be bludgeoned to a pulp with a sack of his own crappy movies. :p

RPGs stand a better chance because they're all about story. The further away you get from that level of characterization the more likely it'll be that the movie will seem dumbed down or clumsy. That's why movies such as MK seem so brainless. There's little to the franchise beyond the "look weird and fight to the death" concept.

Just because a game is great doesn't mean the movie will be. Different mediums. Different audiences.

[Ramseus]

- Fights enemies such as flying turtles, animated bullets, a fire breathing tortoise/dragon thing, giant plants, and other LSD induced nightmares
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

IMHO, as long as Uwe Boll stays away from it, there's some hope. Freakin' guy should be bludgeoned to a pulp with a sack of his own crappy movies. :p
Yeah, but only if you are in the same weight class as Uwe and have written at least two reviews of his movies prior to this date. It will be put into Uwe's next movie, also.


But man, that's just awful. Couldn't they have spent the couple extra weeks and a few more programmers to port the 360 version to PC? I mean really. FFS.

[EricElwell]

what about that hitman movie? I thought that was an oxymoron in itself...

I mean seriously... a game based on action flicks... a movie based on a game based on action flicks..

[Aftermath]

Residient Evil......

[Vrav]

Residient Evil......
When you say that... I hear the title menu voice. :p

I'm kind of offended when poor games are released commercially. I mean, the industry still being sort of fresh and all, if you're going to make cheap and formulaic games, at least make them consumable. Like romance novels. My mom has read hundreds of them. They can't be utter literary failures... even if they're just fluff and drama and, well, romance. They probably have some amount of clever grammar, dialogue and plot structure.

... so what I'm saying is that instead of releasing horrendous, offensive crap, if people want to produce cheap games they should at least do it with some amount of taste and style. There is a grammar to game design, and a line to not cross in the art department when it comes to commercial titles.

That's my beef.

[cookepuss]

I mean, the industry still being sort of fresh and all, if you're going to make cheap and formulaic games, at least make them consumable.
Fresh is a relative term, really. If you count the 1st home edition of Pong (1975) or the formation of Atari (1972) then the industry has been alive for well over 35+ years. Post-crash, the industry is still nearly 25 years old.

While that may pale in comparison to the likes of the film or music industry, it's still more than enough time for companies to develop some bad habits. Especially in an industry that's so heavily dominated by buying seasons, market trends, and licensing, it's safe to assume that garbage makes it through fairly often.

Supposedly, the movie industry is more mature, being around for far more years. Still, we're right in the middle of a trend of spoof movies (if you can call them that) such as "Epic Movie", "Meet the Spartans", or "Disaster Movie" that are not even remotely consumable. When Uwe Boll, a F-list director can get through the industry and sucker in some A-list & B+list talent then you know that the idea of a filter simply doesn't exist.

Realistically, the filter is your buying dollar. Want to show game developers or film producers that you're tired of their antics? Stop buying crap. No matter how tempting it may be. No matter how pretty the pre-rendered stuff is. No matter how masterfully their trailer is hacked out. Don't buy into the churned out, half-assed fluff.

If you vote with your cash and your vote is NO then things will change. Look at how many devs scoffed at the idea of Nintendo making a comeback. Look at how quickly they ended up putting together teams when they saw the actual numbers. Conversely, look at how things went for the old point-&-click genre after the industry milked it dry and wore out the consumers.

Money talks. Unfortunately, people fall for the hype 9 times out of 10. Since no trailer says, "My game or movie sucks." people fall for the tired spiel every time - especially when trailers present the entire story or concept. Not just the game industry, but the film and music industries too. It's the notion of a candy coated road apple. They assume if it's covered in candy that nobody gonna notice just how foul it is. Again, 9 times out of 10, they're right - at least right enough to get your money.

f people want to produce cheap games they should at least do it with some amount of taste and style
More often than not, style & taste cost money. At the very least, they require a concept with a real hook. In an industry that practically winces at the idea of innovation, in favor of predictability, you're more likely to get shovelware for your budget dollar. Tired executions of tired concepts. Half-hearted attempts of cliched designs.

[AchmedtheSnake]

omg it looks like that crappy original nintendo(i think) superman game...

[cookepuss]

Actually, you're probably thinking of the N64 Superman. The NES & SNES ones were mediocre, but nowhere near as bad looking as this or the N64 one.

[blankslatejoe]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/919220/6086530/big-rigs-over-the-road-racing-video-review

[cookepuss]

We have a winnah!!!!

[Aftermath]

We have a winnah!!!!


Agreed, i wonder if the word collision box was every used durring that dev cycle.

[Kalango]

And another comment, maybe next game based movies will be better, since the industry is almost converging to movie-ed games....Take the last releases for example. Wins the best "movie"...

lol at the last video.....

[cookepuss]

Agreed, i wonder if the word collision box was every used durring that dev cycle.
Probably not often as the word Jagermeister. :p

What really kills me is the apparent lack of integrity. Lack of common sense I can forgive. The world is almost entirely populated by idiots. People who make and release stuff like this though.... You wonder if they'd sell their own grandmother's prosthetic leg for sh**s and giggles.

To release what's essentially an alpha build.... That's like saying, "I painted one side of your house. I'm ready to get paid." "Well, f*** you and finish the job first. Then you get paid." :p

What amazes me most is that some of these things sell and sell well, like those bargain bin deer hunting games. Imagine trying to sell Wii Play without the bundled remote. That's like $5 worth of game in a $50 package. Worse yet, the game alone sells used for $25. Really? ... Really?

[cookepuss]

And another comment, maybe next game based movies will be better, since the industry is almost converging to movie-ed games....Take the last releases for example.
Been hearing that since the SegaCD days and the advent of FMV. Hollywood is having a hard enough time making decent films. If anybody thinks that a convergence of the two mediums is going to make anything easier then they might want to reevaluate that position. You're still going to get people cashing in without taking responsibility. You're still going to get rushed products. You're still going to get formulaic "me too" designs.

The idea of convergence sounds nice, but it's unrealistic. Games and movies serve different audiences. One likes to be (semi-)active. The other likes to sit back and watch. One likes 40 hours of play time. The other is content with 90 minutes. Plus, the demographics and global markets aren't entirely the same, especially in nations with uneasy economies.

[Vrav]

One thing I think I was trying to say earlier regarding poor game production is that it offends me. The people (unless they're awful, buggy robots; that'd explain something) that release these games are an insult to the craft. But, that's just me being a little pompous, I guess. Maybe we'll have to take "crappy games" as a part of the field. There's certainly plenty of popular "crappy food" out there to buy, and then of course there are exquisite, creative and original chefs producing top notch meals.

I think one of the things that might be reasonable, which cookepuss did mention, is for the consumer base to stop buying crappy games. How will they tell if they're crap, though? First I guess they need to develop an eye for quality. Maybe we need more outstanding games (that are original, and fun).

Then, perhaps at some point "crappy games" will become like cheap fast food, and not sell for $50 at release. That's what offends me, I guess. It might not sell as well as HL2 or Halo3, but it's still crap and they're trying to sell it at the same price. That's not right. Quality productions have a reason for being that price; something rushed and shoddy, that shows no passion, no dedication to the craft, has no reason for the high price, besides being a scam and a quick buck. :\

Whether or not something is crappy can be determined by how much passion and talent goes into its production, not enjoyment. I mean, like cooke just said, maybe someone enjoys... crappy games. I guess. But it's the developer's fault for their being crappy, either through being lazy, stingy or downright incompetent.

[Kalango]

I'm not saying that the last games are poor or even that there will be one collapse between movies and games. IMHO i think it will be easier for film industry to make movies of "movied" games, in the other hand it can totaly blow the film making, since the game was already "filmed"...
In fact the last "movied" games can give the players what they were waiting for over the past years (action, sense of fear, daught etc). I'm not a particular fan of this, dont think its wrong either. IMHO once again, i think that it just "lack" the features or hability(from developers) to insert the gamer into the game(without having to "induct" the story into the cinematics). True that is cool(and i say this because i played chrono cross mostly to see the cutscenes and cinematics) to play one game with lots of cinematics. But i think the real discussion here is that the film industry didnt figured out how to make one nice and "correct" way to make films from games...YET. And vice-versa. Some did good stuff...but the big huge tremendous majority of it just didnt... The thing is that they realy NEED to work the filme and game insertion and context into their products...And i'll be waiting for this dream to come true :).

PS:Sorry for the bad english..........:paper:

[Aftermath]

Ok before we get to much into bashing the developers, we cannot forget the publishers. Those guys who chop up our games and demand faster production skills. We dont even know if this game was crushed by the publisher to meet a quarter financial state. I agree that alot of dev companys do put out shit work. But some teams get their hands cut off at the money tree.

Am i wrong?

[Vrav]

Hm! Yes. I shouldn't be saying anything, really, since I've never worked on anything professionally. I think that the publishers thing is a very valid point, and rather a sad one.

[cookepuss]

Well, I agree that you have a valid point about the publishers. Specifically, there are publishers that deal in sh**. Their sole existence is defined by quantity instead of quality. There's a huge population of such publishers.

At the same time, if you've got devs who constantly push back the release dates because they don't know how to set realistic milestones.... It makes sense that a publisher would threaten to cut the money or pull the plug. That happens way too often too.

Sometimes, it's not the developers in the trenches or the suits off-site. Sometimes, it's the stereotypical idiot boss who either can't manage a project or just wants to drag things out long enough to finish paying off his car.

Look at it this way. Idiot bosses. Oblivious investors. Greedy publishers. Lazy developers. Scared newbies just looking to eat. There's blame enough to go around. It's a symbiotic relationship.

For a good game to get out there, it takes a convergence of circumstances. At the very least, you need a majority of the parties involved committed to a quality end product. Literally, everybody is a cog in the grand machine. If somebody in the line falls asleep, it all falls apart. So, remember, if somebody calls you a "tool" consider it a compliment. ;)

[Aftermath]

i vote cookepuss for a lecture session at next years GDC, id pay to listen!

[cookepuss]

:p Me no make-y good wit da pubic...err... public speaky. :p (I...had.. a BAD... experience.)

Besides, anybody with eyes knows that there are a gagillion hands on a product. I know that it's cliche to say, but it really is true that too many cooks in the kitchen can destroy a meal.

Just look at the average Hollywood big screen flick. Often, you'll see only 2 or 3 credited writers. In fact, there's a good chance that many, many more people tweaked the script to death. Input from focus groups. Input from studio execs. Changes made by the director. Some guy comes in at the last second to polish the jokes or an action scene. The IP holder asks for some last minute changes, to match their toy lineup. The guys in editing have their own take on a specific scene.

By the the time the flick hit the theaters, it almost never looks like the artist's original vision. It's a miracle that some movies turn out as great as they do. As often as not, interference by outside parties destroys a film.

Same with games. Good, constructive involvement can build a good game into a great one. Conflicting, destructive involvement can send a franchise straight into the toilet.

[SpacemanChuck]

Interesting thread.

It's really turned into a philosophical introspective into games as an art form. In a lot of ways there's never going to be a way to police stuff like this. It's going to happen, the only thing we can do, as consumers in not buy stufflike this. Which is clear. But when we are blatantly tricked by a company we trust like Sega, through crafty marketing, it's just plain unfair. That's when people need to make a stand, make a big fuss on all the forums, and unite against it.

That said, there's other interesting things to think about addressing the same topic... In many ways you can liken making games to other art forms. Would you buy a bad painting and hang it on your wall? Nope, but then again I guess if you couldn't see the painting and all you had was the artists word that would be different. I guess the difference is the marketing machine. It's kinda shit that a game like "Kain and Lynch” which got so much negative press, was in comparison a very good game that few played because of wacky press issues. The review sites also play a hand in this sort of thing happening; you'd think this would be a bigger issue. Cause its absolute crazynes!!!

VRay- I loved your analogy to your moms Romance novels. It's a perfect comparison. These games are formulaic, they should have all the ups and downs worked out, and there should be a standard to be held up to. It's just a good thought.

Styx-I'm sorry your friend bought this, there's no excuse for this. It's robbery and trickery at its finest. And I'm saddened as a life long SEGA fan to see this day come.

CookedPuss-I don't know why this is sticking in my mind, I'm kinda crazy like that. But in your very first post on this thread you said, "Is this REALLY what you want to do with your post". That comment didn't make sense to me, because it seems like you are very interested in the post... U have brought up most of the interesting questions. And many great points on the matter.

SEGA shame on you, but remember even the greatest of painters had bad days, and have done shameful things...

[cookepuss]

That comment didn't make sense to me, because it seems like you are very interested in the post...
I'm way more interested in what this thread has evolved into rather than how it started.

To b***h and moan about a bad game is one thing. To "waste" a post crapping all over a bad movie tie-in game is another. Saying that a movie tie-in is bad is almost like saying water is wet. It's a sad fact, but most such games are garbage. Why waste a post on what is largely considered to be a given?

If that's something that interested the OP then I'm cool with that. Vent away, within reason. Just know that you might not find people in utter shock, praying to their patron deity, and wondering how such an abnormal occurrence could be allowed to take place. More likely, you'll find people doing what they've done here, which is get pissed off that it STILL happens and wonder where to lay the blame.

I actually expect a similar thread to pop up if and when Duke Nukem Whenever finally makes it's appearance. That's a whole other ball of wax though.

As far as what this thread has turned into, it is indeed an interesting debate.

It's robbery and trickery at its finest. And I'm saddened as a life long SEGA fan to see this day come.
Robbery and trickery my @$$. Read a darn review. Download a demo. Go in with realistic expectations. Use your brain. It's the least you can do before opening your wallet. Become an informed consumer.

Sega's track record on the PC has been spotty at best. Ever play Virtua Fighter PC? It was one of the first PC game to support 3D acceleration. Unfortunately, SEGA somehow managed to turn it into PC deceleration. That soured early adopters on HW 3D and put a ding in NVIDIA's reputation early on, since they had a hand in that woeful hardware & product combo.

[BigJohn]

Yeah, but Virtua Cop was awesome!

[Styx]

"Is this REALLY what you want to do with your post"
i think alot of time, what i should answer.
i must say, the realy question in my mind was "wich 3d artist were satisfied with that work? is he satisfied?".
i dont understand thinks like this, have sega nothing like a quality control?
sega is a big name in the game industry, as child sega whas a name that means "fun games that looks good" for me. sonic on the master system looks very much better than a mario game years later.
i dont understand sega but i CANT understand the "artist"...its sad.

about the robbery. there is no trailer or demo out there of the pc version. nobody who want to buy this game can know how bad it looks.
all trailers show only how "fun" it is and how "good" it looks.
but every trailer and the most screens are from the next-gen concole versions. that shows me sega knows about the very low quality.

[cookepuss]

i think alot of time, what i should answer.
I'm sorry if I sounded like I was insulting you. I wasn't. As I said, everybody knows that rain is wet. I only thought that it was a given that most games like that stink. Posting that this new Hulk game was inferior and sub-standard was probably stating something that most of us could have guessed or, at least, suspected.

"wich 3d artist were satisfied with that work? is he satisfied?".
Ah! If you're an artist, are you EVER satisfied? :) Seriously though, these guys were probably just happy that their paychecks cleared in the bank. Sometimes, you do things just for the money. Dirty, icky things. ;)

i dont understand thinks like this, have sega nothing like a quality control?
Sure they do. They also have budgets, deadlines, bills, etc etc etc. They probably figured that a game like this would probably fly under the radar. That or they assumed that the pre-rendered cinematics would make up for everything else. Sometimes, a team has their priorities in the wrong place.

A situation like this, it's likely a failure of management, design, and production. I'm sure that they had quality assurance, but I'm as sure that they were forced to ignore half of the complaints from play testing because of budgetary concerns and deadline. If play testing comes back to them and (essentially) tells them that the game stinks and has to be redesigned, I highly doubt that they'd go back to the drawing board.

A licensed game is like a get rich quick scheme. You go in for the easy buck and don't linger. More time spent on it equals diminished returns. A game like this is going to sell anyway. It's tying into a big movie. A better quality version of this game might not have sold much better than the lesser quality one. The intended audience has made up their mind about it long before it hit the shelves.

More development time equals more money spent. More money spent means that they'll have to sell more copies to break even. If the intended audience is going to buy the game regardless, there's a good chance they'll toss out whatever is deemed passable.

This may not necessarily be true of SEGA per se, but it's basic business. Most companies don't make a licensed product for the inherent artistic value. They do it to make money. When it comes down to it, if they have to cut corners they will. If the audience is going to buy it anyway, why bother? Something like this, unfortunately, is all about maximum return for minimal investment.

sega is a big name in the game industry, as child sega whas a name that means "fun games that looks good" for me.
True. At the same time, they've released as many bad games as they have good ones - if not more. The thing about nostalgia is that people remember the good stuff and conveniently forget about the bad. Historically, SEGA is as guilty of producing garbage as everybody else. Same with Nintendo. Same with Sony. Same with everybody. They can't all be winners. :)

Sonic on the master system looks very much better than a mario game years later.
BLASPHEMY!!!!! :) I'm an old school Nintendo fanboy. I've always contended that Sonic might have looked better (at times), but Mario always played better. I never found much replay value in the Sonic games. Once I finished with it, that was it. I was done. With Super Mario World, I went out of my way to find each and every hidden thing. Same with Mario 64 and every one thereafter.

To each his own though.

BTW, wasn't Sonic 1 on the 16-bit Genesis not 8-bit Master System? I vaguely remember the marketing for "blast processing." I vaguely remember an 8-bit version, but I thought that it was a port of the 16-bit version - just like the GameGear one. Sonic 1 was a contemporary of Super Mario World, iirc.

all trailers show only how "fun" it is and how "good" it looks.
Because a trailer is going to say, "Hey, our game is sh**. Buy it now." :p Nah. Just like Hollywood, the purpose of the trailer is to tease you and to make you want to buy their product, regardless of how dreadful or shoddy it may really be.

A demo might not have been much more helpful either. I've seen some awesome demos that showcase the first level of a game. After playing them, I thought the game was going to be a masterpiece. After buying the game, I realized that the first level was the only one the design team actually put any thought into. Demos can lie to you just as much as trailers and screen captures.

that shows me sega knows about the very low quality.
Yeah, but it shows you that they know how to hide the skeletons in their closet long enough to make a getaway with your money. :D

[cookepuss]

Original 8-bit port of Sonic, btw.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/SMS_Sonic_the_Hedgehog.png
Better looking than 16-bit Mario SNES, released the same year? Probably not.

[Styx]

ok, you are right.
but i think the 8-bit sonic looks much better than the 8-bit mario.
same at the 16-bit versions.

[SpacemanChuck]

Cookepuss rules!!!

My cats breath smells like cat food...

[cookepuss]

EDIT EDIT EDIT

Nothing to see here. These are not the droids you're looking for. Move along.

Back on topic....

;) HULK BAD!!!!! ARGH!!!! ;)

[BuroKun]

HULK?.....ohhh yaaa......that guy lol

[SpacemanChuck]

Indeed back on topic. Again, I'm glad to have a community that's looking out for the greater good! It's awesome.


Ok, so heres the deal. The reason it's robbery, is because of the reasons you mentioned. Go out and start looking around for images of this game and you're gonna see 360 screens that look nothing like this crap...

How ever I'd rather say that SEGA just made a mistake, and somehow this slipped through quality control. I'll keep that outlook cause I love SEGA.

[JacqueChoi]

From a financial standpoint, it's pretty easy to see how the quality could be this bad (witnessing this first person).

Sega hands out $1million to a third party developer to make 'a videogame'. It dosen't need to be good. It just has to be on the shelf for when the movie hits the screen.

They go to the lowest bidder with a reputation of being able to deliver 'on time' a game that will pass (barely) the Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo TSR.

THAT company's only incentive, is to keep the cost of the development under $1million. The more money they save, the more money they get to pocket (as they likely don't really get any of the residual income from the sales - depending on how it's negotiated).

So likely what you're getting is a rehashed engine, with rehashed textures, with rehashed code, thrown together by a few juniors (maybe 1 or 2 seniors) no designers, and VERY likely no testers.

It's unfortunate that it happens to our beloved comic characters, but it's how these scenarios tend to unfold.

Movie tie-in games tend to be afterthoughts. They fall in line with movie-toys, McDonalds Happy Meals, and Themed Popcorn Bucket deals at the movieplex.

Unfortunately for us consumers, these games are NOT meant to be good. They're just meant to be available as promotional material.

[ShadyD]

[edit] wait.. haven't read p2, p3 and p4 yet!