Average workload for Artists?

[netflow]

Hey guys,
Just doing up contracts right now in preparation for our first big hiring process for in studio and contracted artists.
My question as I've mainly worked with volunteers in a collaborative sense and not with full time paid staff is what is a realistic workload to put on these people?

Lets break it down for how many pieces would be reasonable to expect the following conceptual artists to produce:

Character Artists:
Environmental Artist:
Vehicle/Mechanical/Misc Artist:

Clearly I am aware this isn't an exact science as different pieces will be of different quality and detail depending on their use but I am just looking for general thoughts and experience that you artists working for more established studios have had in the past

If any of you 3D modellers have similar experience I would love to hear your input on this as well.

Thanks in advance, your help is greatly appreciated

[cookepuss]

It's not so much how much of a workload you can put on them. It's more a matter of how much of a workload they'll put up with. The 9-to-5 workday is becoming much more of a rare thing. I mean, it still exists, but certain fields 8-to-6 is as likely. Minus an hour for lunch, that's 35-45 a week.

On art, it's easy to push your work week beyond that. I know a number of artists who work 8-7 and put in a 55 hour week (minus lunch.) I also know some artists who put in their 9-6 or 8-6 at the office and end up taking work home or remaining in contact with their team. Plus, they're not getting paid for that remote time or past "x" hour either. Then, there's the issue of the 6 day work week VS the traditional 5 day. That'll throw a kink in the plan too.

I'm a firm believer in honest pay for honest work. What you probably want to know is, "How much can I push the envelope and pay the same?" IMHO, if I don't get paid what I'm worth I find it hard to remain motivated. If all you're paying your employees for is 35 hours a week, but are asking them to work 45 or 55 then you might end up with some very unhappy employees looking for work elsewhere. No wife likes to be a game company widow.

There's an unfair situation in the industry where artists are expected to work an outrageous 54 or even a 60 hour week, but only get paid standard 35-40. Because of the competitive nature of things, most artists just throw their hands up and (unhappily) accept it. That's the basis of the whole EA backlash from several years back.

I can understand having your team members put in more time when the critical milestones and deadlines are within reach. Personally, if I know that I absolutely MUST finish something on time then I don't have much problem working weird hours. Even so, working for myself, I don't like to cut much into my profit margin.

From an employee's perspective, who wants to get paid $55k when they're putting in $75k worth of effort? Sure, if you love what you do then it shouldn't matter. Blah. Blah. Blah. I've got bills too. :) Nobody likes to get paid for less than they're worth.

If you're going to ask your employees to put in "flexible" hours then you really should prepare to offer them a healthy, competitive benefits package and some extra creature comforts. IOW, make it worth their while in as many ways as possible. Performance incentives. Flex time. ETC.

Long hours are a sad fact of any tech related industry. Time flies when you're in front of a PC. Blink and your day is gone. Still, you should never treat your workers like machines. Remember that they are people too. Stress them too much and your project suffers.

Like the saying goes, a happy worker is a productive worker.

Making sure that your employees are fairly compensated and not overworked may make it tricky or expensive to put together large team early on, but in it'll be worth it in the end. Treat your employees fairly and you'll build some loyalty. Maybe they won't mind volunteering that extra hour or two a night if they're like working for you.

Just some workplace philosophy for you.

[cookepuss]

BTW, for anybody who thinks that game artists and programmers have it bad, I've known of many CPAs who are expected go in at 7am, go home at 10pm, take a 1/2 hour for lunch, come in Saturdays, and.... only get paid for 35 hours a week. Plus, the pay sucks. From what I hear, that's very typical in that field too. Damn near slave labor.

[netflow]

Great post and I agree with what you are saying. I do not envy entry level artists, as according to GDmag the average starting wage for a Canadian concept artists is somewhere around $37,000 as Canadians typically make 15% less than their American Counterparts.
We are firm believers in paying for what they are worth as I feel the same that if someone is being paid for what they are worth they will work harder and produce much higher quality work, which in the end saves us money.

My main questions is mainly to do with how much should i expect my artists to be producing within that sometimes wacky flexible.. IE: is 16 hours too much time to be scheduling for a non-important character concept(strictly 2D). It is more to do with time scheduling and deadline creation than anything else as we have to answer to investors and have schedules and results to keep them content investing the project.

GREAT thoughts though, I really appreciate you taking the time to write them down!

[cookepuss]

according to GDmag the average starting wage for a Canadian concept artists is somewhere around $37,000
That's a bit over $36k here in the USA. Post tax, that's close to $25k. I can easily see rent alone eating up close to 1/2 that money. Wow. :)

Yeah. I wouldn't envy anybody having to live on that. It's darn near impossible here, unless you're alone and live a Spartan lifestyle. Maybe it's just my perspective as a New Yorker, as everything is so darn expensive here. Mind you, I don't spend a lot on myself. However, after all of the necessary household expenses are taken care of, I can't get by here in NY with under $90k.

ANYWAY....

It is more to do with time scheduling and deadline creation than anything else as we have to answer to investors and have schedules and results to keep them content investing the project.
You're absolutely right. I actually think that it's probably closer to being a scheduling issue. You can't put a firm number on how long it takes a specific concept character to be worked out. Some artists can bang out a soild, pro-level concept in 3 hours. Others might take 3 days. You really have to account for the complexity of the task and the proficiency of the artist. That's something you should actively take note of when interviewing.

You may also want to go to some very specialized boards. Ask "x" artist how long it took him to complete "y" piece. It might be much easier if you can ask the question in regards to specific pieces that may match the detail levels you have in mind.

To be honest, you really should have a couple of different timelines in mind. Like I said, people are not machines. People also make mistakes and have to occasionally redo previously completed work. Always keep your internal goals focused, but assume that your team might need extra time. This way, even if you overshoot your internal milestones a bit, you won't disappoint your investors or clients.

If I tell you that I'm going to finish something by September 1st, but think that I can (unimpeded) finish it on August 15th I'll probably tell you September 1st. Computers crash. People get sick. Small design changes cascade into bigger problems. Stuff like that.

I'd much rather deliver something early than late. It's not unethical. It's a matter of accounting for the cold realities of life and good old Murphy's Law.

[kessler]

In my personal opinion I think that long hours are crap, unproductive and huge burnouts. Game development is becoming more game manufacturing with lines of modelers cranking out sandbags and crates. Of course there is nothing wrong with this. I equates to making more money for the company. But it makes artists sad. lol. I vote for 5 hour days where lots of work is done. 5 hours 5 days a week. But this will never happen and the world and character artist assembly lines will continue to heave intangible objects down the pipe line of creative hell.

I may or may not agree with any of things that I just wrote.

[funkdelic]

Game development is becoming more game manufacturing with lines of modelers cranking out sandbags and crates.

and I agree with this.
mainly in the countries where the game dev is just new, here in brazil for example the industry is just on the very early years, and its growing but slowly, Ubisoft just came to my city and some guys that I know are saying that they want to hire up to 200 ppl. Well since the charge for this kinda of work is very low here, I cant expect too much for the industry here in my country.

[netflow]

You're absolutely right. I actually think that it's probably closer to being a scheduling issue. You can't put a firm number on how long it takes a specific concept character to be worked out. Some artists can bang out a soild, pro-level concept in 3 hours. Others might take 3 days. You really have to account for the complexity of the task and the proficiency of the artist. That's something you should actively take note of when interviewing.



True that, again though it is an issue of me know if I am either not pushing my people hard enough or if I am pushign them too much..IE: If someone is taking 6 hours consistently to draw something with the complexity of a birdhouse(lets assume it is a simple birdhouse) I know that there is something wrong here and perhaps this artist is over thinking things or just needs to be moved to different tasks other than birdhouses. However for a character I am wondering where I should draw that line.. If an artist consistently takes 22 hours to do a character and never a minute less perhaps I should be suggesting that they start drawing bird houses, or perhaps that is a pretty decent time for an entry level, yet fully qualified industry artist. I personally don't think so but I would want to get an artists opinion on this. totally understand that there are variables from task to task but was hoping someone had a wide ballpark figure for these things.


To be honest, you really should have a couple of different timelines in mind. Like I said, people are not machines. People also make mistakes and have to occasionally redo previously completed work. Always keep your internal goals focused, but assume that your team might need extra time. This way, even if you overshoot your internal milestones a bit, you won't disappoint your investors or clients.


A fantastic idea for sure.. Of course you just dumped double the scheduling workload on my shoulders but I think it would be worth it for sure..

[JacqueChoi]

Here's a breakdown of a Character:

From concept to in-game at a high quality, you should expect about a month for the first one (and if parts can be reused, such as hands, ears, faces, etc, then that time goes down for each successive one, depending on how much can be salvaged).

So a decent estimate IMO would be 2 weeks for each reused character type, depending on how unique the character is, but can be reduced down to 7-8 days if you have a solid pipeline that reuses a lot of work (and the artists don't go cheese-whiz crazy on Zbrush details the normal map won't pick up).

It also completely depends on the style of art you're going for.

Anyways, I'm not much of a beleiver in taking tasks AWAY from anyone, unless it's either cut from the game, or is a voluntary choice. It dosen't promote long-term growth of an individual, and may demoralize them.

It also falls in line more with the bigger studio paradigm of farming their employees, rather than growing them.

I think a more experienced artist will ask questions to better understand the scope of the asset they're working on:

What kind of birdhouse, how big on screen, how much screentime.

Having a small birdhouse as a background prop that will never be interacted with, is a MUCH different beast than a large birdhouse in an establishing shot, that is seen in a closeup with a door hinges flinging open with a visible turn in the doornob, and ornate stain glass windows and a small chimney with smoke coming out of it with visible brushstrokes in the painting lines, and stucco shingling, and an ornately gothic awning.

A good director should be able to communicate the kind of scope they're looking for, and a good lead should be able to communicate the best methods to achieve that.

[netflow]

Here's a breakdown of a Character:

From concept to in-game at a high quality, you should expect about a month for the first one (and if parts can be reused, such as hands, ears, faces, etc, then that time goes down for each successive one, depending on how much can be salvaged).

So a decent estimate IMO would be 2 weeks for each reused character type, depending on how unique the character is, but can be reduced down to 7-8 days if you have a solid pipeline that reuses a lot of work (and the artists don't go cheese-whiz crazy on Zbrush details the normal map won't pick up).

It also completely depends on the style of art you're going for.



Great! Thanks a bundle for this. Now with your job in Montreal there doing Characters are you incharge of taking the from concept to fully textured model or does your studio specialize tasks more? I have researched both sides and it seems the industry is torn between the two but leaning more towards hiring artists who have a broader skill set twixt 2D and 3D



Anyways, I'm not much of a beleiver in taking tasks AWAY from anyone, unless it's either cut from the game, or is a voluntary choice. It dosen't promote long-term growth of an individual, and may demoralize them.

It also falls in line more with the bigger studio paradigm of farming their employees, rather than growing them.


While I understand it from the artists point of view and am also a firm believer about encouraging growth we also have the harsh reality of deadlines on our shoulders. Sometimes you can be floggin a dead horse with this although it is all a learning experience and it will help you as a manager really have a clearer grasp on an artists' strengths and weaknesses. But at the end of the day sometimes a new pair of eyes are needed to come in and take a look at a concept problem from outside the box instead of having someone just flog through it for weeks and feel like this dude: :brick:

[/quote]

I think a more experienced artist will ask questions to better understand the scope of the asset they're working on:

What kind of birdhouse, how big on screen, how much screentime.

Having a small birdhouse as a background prop that will never be interacted with, is a MUCH different beast than a large birdhouse in an establishing shot, that is seen in a closeup with a door hinges flinging open with a visible turn in the doornob, and ornate stain glass windows and a small chimney with smoke coming out of it with visible brushstrokes in the painting lines, and stucco shingling, and an ornately gothic awning.
[/quote]

Experience and Enthusiasm I find. Experience to ask the important questions in regards to how it is used in game and the technical aspects of what is needed to make the best content possible and enthusiasm as far as digging deeper into the emotional response that is wanted from the piece, the backstory that might affect it, it's future in the game, etc etc.. I will always gravitate towards those artists as experience comes with time but I find that kind of enthusiasm sometimes can be there or just simply not.


A good director should be able to communicate the kind of scope they're looking for, and a good lead should be able to communicate the best methods to achieve that.

Very well put.