HELP!!! Considering a new PC

[Parnell]

Ok so my comp crapped out last night I'm thinking it could be the hard drive.

However, if the problem is worse I'll be looking at a new comp. I'm looking into something probably $500-1000. I'm a little confused on what is awesome for Zbrush, and 2048 textures in photoshop. It also looks like I'll be using Vista Ultimate since XP seems impossible to find (plus it's probably time to update).
So is 64 bit better than XP? I imagine I'll get 8 gigs of RAM. Just curious what people are using now with their setups for making Next-Gen-PRO-Dom-War-4-hyper-map awesomeness.
Right now I'm just confused on all the CPU Chipset stuff...Quad Core, Dual Core, Phenom??
I was running dual Geforce 7800 GTX SLI and that was pretty sweet so I was hoping to transfer the GFX cards over to save money, but it's not necessary.

So ya ANY help would be appreciated with this.
Thanks!
B

[JacqueChoi]

I'm just tagging this post to subscribe.

I need a new machine too, and I'll likely get the same one you get.

:D




Hooray for my 1 gig of ram, and crappy videocard on a machine that can stutters on Half Life 2 on minimum settings!

[Kyoske]

I just posted a thread about this same topic. and after a ton of research, talking with folks from both sides of the board, and having experience with both types of computer I will be picking up a mac pro tower. if you want I can get into detail about the mac side of things but that's a long post.

Now I have always been a PC guy. built my system every time the new rotation of tech hits the streets. but I'm tired of screwing around with it and the prospect of having both os's at my disposal is a nice thought. gg final cut pro.

From a hardware stand point I'm starting at 6 gig of ram which seem to be a good average, 8-16 is what I see as a more common mid to high. I heard something about vista ult and something with the new service pack letting the 32 bit ver of the os address more then 4gig of ram. I don't know tho. the 64 bit ver of vista ult can address 128 gig. 32 bit ver says 4 gig.

3d card mine will come with an 8800 gt 512MB which is kinda on the low end but cards can always be upgraded. personally I like the nVidia GeForce 9800GX2 1024MB for the cost.

Quad core nice. they can handle a pretty heavy load of work. There are a few options with the processors, when you buy the "extreme" ver of the processor this basically unlocks the cpu for over clocking. it costs more money and depending on your lvl of tech know how it may or may not be worth the extra money.

I'm no expert by any means this is just the bits I have picked up from looking around my self. so if any one see's any holes plz feel free to fill in the blanks.

GL in finding a system that works for you.

[Chasarsis]

Spec first, then the performance I'm getting:
4400 AMD Athlon 64 x2 Dual Core processor
OCZ 4gb ram sticks
1 Nvidia 8800 gt
Windows Xp64
Western Digital 160 gb hdd 7200 rpm
Western digital 500 gb hdd sata 7200 rpm

Been running with the same hardware setup for the about the last year, and I've liked it alot. Zbrush doesn't slow up too much for me around 10 million polies, and I can use photoshop and max together, and shuffle a 2048 texture between them for a lot longer without horrible slow downs than I could on 2 gigs of ram.

I originally started off with lower end components. and have gradually upgraded or repaired over time, and the total's probably been around like $1500 over the course of two years . . . although that's due in great part to me buying them not to long after they were released.

[micke]

i'm also considering to upgrade, getting really tired of having to split up my meshes into tiny tiny meshes when sculpting :brick:

i'll guess i'll have to go over to vista, although i've heard that the drivers for the 64 version is really crappy. but since it's not exactly new that should be fixed. anyone who has any experience about that?

anyhow i'm considering to buy a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz processor, 4 gig ram, MSI GeForce 9800GTX+ 512MB, and then upgrade to 8 gig sometime later if that isn't enough.

[cookepuss]

RAM: The more the merrier. 8GB is super sweet. Thus far, with 8GB, I haven't had a single out of memory warning from the OS.

64-Bit VS 32-Bit: A 64-bit OS is an absolute must for anything above 4GB of RAM. Well, above 3GB if we're being realistic about it. Video RAM and reserved address space can eat up to 1GB out of a 4GB PC. Anything above the hardcoded limit of 32-bits and the extra RAM is wasted. With a 64-bit OS, you've got full access to all of your RAM. Just know that you'll need apps that are compiled to 64-bit to make use of the extra RAM. 32-bit apps still run on a 64-bit OS. They're just RAM limited by their 32-bit compilation. In general though, even 32-bit apps like ZBrush do benefit from 64-bit OSes. With more RAM and more address space, there's less of a likelihood that system resources will start eating into your ZBrush memory potential.

OS: I'm using Vista x64 Ultimate. Great OS. With the recent service pack and patches, it runs like a dream. All of my apps work. All of my hardware works. I did have to ditch my HP laserjet, but that's because HP is not too great with supporting new OSes on old hardware. Lots of codec support on Vista. The whole 3D accelerated Aero interface seems like so much gloss at first, but it does actually improve UI performance. Also, Vista Ultimate handles Media Center tasks such as TV/DVR much better.

CPU: The whole WTF issue with CPU is understandable. Simplified, a dual core is like having a dual CPU PC on one chip. Similarly, a quad core would be like having a 4 CPU setup on one board. The Phenom is just AMD's version of the same thing, although AMD offers a triple core too. Personally, I've found Intel to be faster and more reliable. However, AMD tends to be cheaper.

If you can find on in your price range, I'd say go for the Quad Core. Just keep in mind that you won't necessarily get a 4x speed boost when rendering. Miscellaneous chip level stuff regulates your speed a bit. In a dual core setup, the average speedup is about 1.8x. In a quad core, the speed up is something closer to 3.25x. That's a whole lot of render speed boost.

As far as individual CPU speed goes, don't go by clock speed. That's a last gen mentality. Clock speed is less of an indicator of what PC is the best. For example, I've got an Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 @ 2.83GHz. That clock speed is slower than my older PentiumD 3.4GHz. However, even with one CPU core running, the Q9550 beats the snot of of the old Pentium D. Look online for some comparative benchmarks to see what fits your needs and wallet most.

GPU: The SLI you have there is nice, but it's not all that helpful in anything but games. It certainly won't help you at render time and I doubt that it affects your practical 3D editor speed. (I a bit iffy on that last one so don't quote me.) Regardless, you can get a good consumer GeForce8 series card now that they're "last gen". It should perform as well for your CG tasks as an older GeForce7. Better in most cases.

HDD: Bigger is better. I've got 2.5TB of space across multiple drives and I'm loving it. Lots of space for videos, textures, reference materials, MP3s, etc. You'll find that the more space you have the quicker it fills up though. :)

CD/DVD: Totally a personal preference. I'm lovin' Blu-Ray. I've already got a PS3, but it's nice to be able to watch a HD movie on one monitor while working on the other.

As far as what I'm running....

PRIMARY WORKSTATION: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz · 8GB RAM · NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT 512MB · 2.5 TB HDD · Blu-Ray Writer · TV tuner w/4 channel recording · Vista Ultimate x64 · Wacom Intuos 9"x12" · Monitor A) 22" Samsung Widescreen @ 1680x1050 · Monitor B) 19" Acer Widescreen @ 1440x900

The cost for the PC alone was about $3k. You're going to have to find a lot of bargains and strike a lot of deals if you want to keep a high spec at that $1k price range.

[cookepuss]

i'll guess i'll have to go over to vista, although i've heard that the drivers for the 64 version is really crappy. but since it's not exactly new that should be fixed. anyone who has any experience about that?
Driver support for Vista x64 was really bad a year ago. It's a lot better now and is getting better every day. I haven't had a single problem with any new piece of hardware, internal or external. Just be aware that hardware manufacturers are less likely to support older, legacy hardware with newer 64-bit drivers. That's not the fault of Vista. That's the fault of the individual hardware developer. They can't keep on supporting that 5 year old printer you've been hanging onto for dear life. :p

[Parnell]

Thanks dude!
Ya I JUST need a bare bones machine as I just picked up a DVD drive, new Logitech Mouse, keyboard, etc.
Thanks for all the spec talk that helps a ton.
Interesting to find out Zbrush is only 32 bit...most people talk about how they can get like 15 million poly models running no sweat with 64 bit...I guess it's all the extra RAM?
B

[Marcus Dublin]

Well you can get a Windows 64 bit OS in a number of different flavors!

Currently I’m running windows XP 64 Pro which can still be purchased online: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571830&csid=_21
"Note" Best buy still carries this OS, you just have to ask for it.

Once you upgrade to a 64bit OS you’ll notice a nice performance boost, especially when it comes to Zbrush 3.1, and 3ds max 9+!;)

Along with the New OS I would recommend getting a sh^%T ton of Ram! You should have at least 4 gigs on your new rig, if not more. My personal brand recommendation would have to be the OCZ / dual channel. "Ram seems to be pretty cheep these days so get them while there hot!":)

Having the extra ram will work wonders when it comes to handling large Photoshop files, ie: “no more excuses on not working with multiple 2k maps!”:D

For the CPU, I would suggest nothing less than an Intel 775 dual core 2.4ghz and up “ actually I think dual core is the standard now” but if you can spring it I would go for the quad core. More and more applications are starting to take advantage of this.

I would keep your SLI set up if you happy with it, just make sure the new motherboard supports enough PCIe slots. Speaking of which I would get a motherboard with the CPU so you don’t end up getting the wrong combination! You can see a few examples here: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=14&name=Motherboard-CPUs

By the way don’t skimp on your new hard drive, I just picked up a new 750 gig “SATA” drive which I use as my main HD. If you shop around I bet you can get a terabyte drive for around 250 bucks!

I’m sure you’ll be able to build a pretty sweet machine for well under a grand, it just takes a bit of research and a little shopping around. Good luck!:cool:

PS: For a bit of hand holding I would purchase a bare bones kit, this will let you hit the ground running. This includes the case, mother board, and power supply! You can see some examples here: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=31&name=Barebone-Kits

[Parnell]

Thanks Marcus!
The link to XP doesn't say 64 bit. I have XP PRO from my Dell i bought and a retail unopened boxed version of XP Pro as well. Is it just a matter of saying to install/run in 64bit? Or is there a 64bit version of the OS i need to order?
B

[Marcus Dublin]

My bad, here's the correct link: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571832

Tiger says that they’re currently out of stock but I'm sure other vendors like newegg still carry it, this is of course if you wanted this flavor. I personally went with xp64 at the time since I was scared of moving onto Vista. I needed a proven OS pretty quickly and didn't want the headaches that came with tweaking a flaky Vista OS. Then again as cookepuss mentioned Vista has come a long ways and probably worth looking into.;)

[rmac]

I do not know if any one uses anti-virus software, but that is the big issue I have with XP64. There are not many solid antivirus program that are true 64 bit. Also just a heads up Quicktime from apple hasn't been set up for xp64, so if you are looking to use quicktime pro you could be SOL. THere are other codecs that emulate quicktime, but that is my experience.

[cookepuss]

Gotta be careful with Tiger Direct. They have some good stock, but they don't always charge the best prices.

If I'm too lazy I simply default to Newegg. If I'm looking for the best prices I'll use bizrate.com or price grabber and do some comparison shopping.

For example, I just upgraded all of the TVs at home HD. Unfortunately, that meant lots of new HDMI cables. "Monster" cables can easily run $100 per cable. You can find other brand name HDMI cables for as low as $35. I did some comparison shopping and found great HDMI cables for only $1.97 per. No hissing on the audio. No video tearing. Perfect 1080p.

Just goes to show ya, it pays to be a cheap b@st@rd. :p Bargain hunting may cost you time, but it'll spare your wallet.

[Yung]

Chipping in my thoughts for this :D. modeling_man, I am sure you need to get a separate window XP 64 bit disk for that. I am with cookepuss and the rest, get a 64 bit OS if you can, and since u have an old 32 xp, u can always dual boot.

In regards of Zbrush, zbrush only takes account into three things. Harddisk space and speed, ram, and finally the core speed and number of cores. Harddisk rpm speed supposedly helps to speed things up with reading and saving files as well as when ram runs out, though personally I did not feel any major boost from a cheaper, standard 7000+ rpm.

The biggest performance is mainly going to come from your RAM, followed by the processor :D. With 4gig rams and 64 bit, I managed to push most test models into the 10k mil polygons easily.

[Parnell]

Chipping in my thoughts for this :D. modeling_man, I am sure you need to get a separate window XP 64 bit disk for that. I am with cookepuss and the rest, get a 64 bit OS if you can, and since u have an old 32 xp, u can always dual boot.

In regards of Zbrush, zbrush only takes account into three things. Harddisk space and speed, ram, and finally the core speed and number of cores. Harddisk rpm speed supposedly helps to speed things up with reading and saving files as well as when ram runs out, though personally I did not feel any major boost from a cheaper, standard 7000+ rpm.

The biggest performance is mainly going to come from your RAM, followed by the processor :D. With 4gig rams and 64 bit, I managed to push most test models into the 10k mil polygons easily.

Thanks! That's great to know.
I just picked up a 500g hard drive for $89 to test boot my comp. If it fails I'll be buying a new comp. So this info has helped me out a TON!
B

[BiG ToE]

if you go with a bare-bones kit, the tigerdirect kits are great, they make sure the parts all work together, and its much easier to build than I thought. Took me about an hour or so, and that's because I was moving super slow to make sure I didn't break anything. Oh, and when your done and see a box full of wires, don't worry, they give you more than you need.

[rv_el]

I could say a lot here. I'm upgrading soon too! i can't wait

Cookepuss's workstation specs at the bottom of his post is basically it.

Here is some quick info i'll bang out, take it as you will. Also these are the brands i always buy too, listed.

Cpu/mobo: Make sure to get matching stuff. I usually get AMD but Intel is rockin' this time and if you can afford it, i'd go Core2Quad, the nice price range right now is the 2.8 i think..
Brand: Asus Mobo

Video Card: Just a single affordable Nvidia one like a 9800GTX or whatever.
Make: BFG Tech

Ram: You wont get much out of anything above DDR 2-800 right now, so just do like 8 gigs of DDR 2-800.
Brand: Corsair (mid-range)

PowerSUply: Never underestimate this part. Look into it. Make sure its enough power and good brand
Brand: Thermatake

Hard Drive: Try to get the latest like Sata. Whatever it is.. .3.0? whatever i dunno. I just get a regular old 7800rpm one, like a Seagate Barracuda *shrug*

Oh also. Make sure you get a nice fan (Brand: Zalman) for the CPU and do a kick ass job installing it using some sort of like Arctic whatever thermal goo shit. If you install it all yourself that is. I've built all my machines except this next purchase i might get it all pre built.


Vista 64bit is pretty nice right now. I've been using it. IF you dual boot, i suggest doing what i've been doing which is a hard drive swap.. I have nice HD bays and 2 hds in them and i literaly pull the plugs out and plug them into the other hard drive.

Ok, i'm really tired. Time for a beer and Braid.

[Parnell]

Well looks like I will be looking into a new computer.
I got the drive doing a format and it halted at 74% saying the shell32.dll file could not be copied over. That was at 4:30am after waiting hours for the format to happen. My buddy says it's probably a problem with the bridge that links the HD and DVD drives together...whatever it means. So ya...I'm a little reluctant because i've never had a computer die on me (this was my first Dell). I've had problems but always have been able to solve it. I think I'll be looking into a Tiger Kit, I used to be a do-it-yourself but as i get older I find myself not able to spend days tinkering on my computer like in college.

I'll keep you guys informed on what I buy and how it works out.
Thanks!
B

[JacqueChoi]

PRIMARY WORKSTATION: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz · 8GB RAM · NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT 512MB · 2.5 TB HDD · Blu-Ray Writer · TV tuner w/4 channel recording · Vista Ultimate x64 · Wacom Intuos 9"x12" · Monitor A) 22" Samsung Widescreen @ 1680x1050 · Monitor B) 19" Acer Widescreen @ 1440x900

The cost for the PC alone was about $3k. You're going to have to find a lot of bargains and strike a lot of deals if you want to keep a high spec at that $1k price range.

Damn Cookepuss! Thanks a ton!

I guess if digital art is considered to be a major part of your life, then this is where much of your $$$$ should be spent.


I'm almost toying with the idea of getting a lappy (sorry for hijaking the thread a bit Modelling Mang)

But could anyone recommend a decent Laptop?

[Parnell]

No worries Joxx. I think the more questions and answers about computer stuff the better.
I'd almost recommend this be a thread about 64 bit PC's. Building your own PC. Dual booting Macs and what not as well.
These are all things I'm considering.
B

[ReplicA]

Another place to check out is http://www.cyberpowerpc.com It's where I got my pc, and they have a more customizable "customize" section than most places, where they mean "you can only ADD to the price, not subtract" when they use that word. They're pretty cheap as well, and tell you exactly what parts you're getting. They also don't (normally) force an OS on you, like many other sites do. I was able to knock $83 off the price by not getting Vista. I've heard customer service can be a hassle, but I never had to use it cause I never had any problems.


[EDIT] Don't forget to check retailmenot.com when buying anything on the net. Put in the URL of the site your gonna buy from, and they search for deal codes for that site, and show what those codes do, and how often they work. Sometimes you don't get much of a deal, but you might as well just check, ya never know.

[Parnell]

Wow just checked this place out.
Pretty sweet stuff.
With a little mix/match between new egg and these guys you can get a pretty pimp deal!
B

[BiG ToE]

heres a great starting point (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4138023&sku=P450-9112%20B&SRCCODE=WEM1694V&cm_mmc=Email-_-Main-_-WEM1694-_-compo).

then theres always, http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/lobby.htm

[Parnell]

So this is a system I'm lookin at:

Apologies for the layout it's from the shopping cart:
So my question is this...the CPU is a FSB of 1333, yet the RAM is 800...the price for DDR3 1333 is PRICEY right now...so is it better to bite the bullet and get the better ram? or just go 8 gigs of the DDR2 800? I also plan to buy the other 4 gigs at Newegg as it's much cheaper there. My buddy says the 8 gigs isn't worth it...as most motherboards were hacking the ability to use 8 gigs.

Total price is $1337.00
A truly 1337 price!

# CAS: NZXT Zero Aluminum Full Tower 420W Case (Black/Silver Color)
# CS_FAN: Extra Case Cooling Fan (2 x Fans)
# CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9550 @ 2.83GHz 1333FSB 12MB L2 Cache 64-bit
# FAN: Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX Gaming CPU Cooling Fan (Excellent Overclocking + Silent Proof 16dBA)
# HDD: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
# MOTHERBOARD: (3-Way SLI & QX9650/9770 Support) EVGA nForce 780i SLI Mainboard FSB1333 DDR2 3 x PCIe x16 SATA RAID w/ USB2.0,IEEE1394,&7.1Audio
# MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)4GB (2x2GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory
# POWERSUPPLY: 800 Watts Power Supplies (NZXT PP800 Performance Power ATX 2.0 Power - Quad SLI Ready)
# VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 1GB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Powered by NVIDIA)

Good?
B

[BiG ToE]

all I would do is double check the big fan, to make sure it fits in the case. New cases have these cpu vent things that will get in the way of a huge fan, not a big deal, you will just have to remove the vent. Just a heads up.

[Parnell]

Well i think at this place they build the computer for me right?
So wouldn't they make it work?
B

[BiG ToE]

good call, which place did you go with.

[Parnell]

cyberpowerpc.com
I think it's the one you mentioned to go with?
I will be buying my RAM through Newegg though...as it's cheaper MUCH cheaper.
$400 for 8 gigs vs $205 for 8 gigs from Newegg
B

[ReplicA]

That's exactly what I did. Just got the base RAM from cyberpower, then got the rest from newegg. Cyberpower might be charging extra to put the stuff in the machine, but either way, newegg is MUCH cheaper when it comes to RAM, than almost anywhere else I've seen.

Glad to see my suggestion helped you out a little, modeling_man, and I hope your order goes smoothly. BTW, I'd KILL for that pc. Just putting that out there. ;)

[BiG ToE]

I think what we need to worry about now is what Modeling Man is going to do with the new machine. I for one, am having nightmares.

[rv_el]

Brian, i had this bookmarked from a few montsh ago wheni was looking into buying a machine

http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/cpu/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333.html

Takei t as you will, i basiclaly figured that moving from 800 to 1333 your going to pay a lot to get like 1% more performance.

One thing to look at with ram is the latencies.. You'll notice the number goes higher (thats bad) as they move up from like 800-1333 etc... So yeah.. The new ram isn't fully hot and supported yet. I'm thinking of just getting DDR2-800 myself and i'm getting a minimum of 8gigs.


The setup your looking at buying looks cool to me! pretty much what i'm looking at, except i might spring for more ram if i can get it cheap like on newegg. for some reason they seem short on the big stuff lately. *shrug*.. its annoying.

[Ancient-Pig]

I highly highly recomend this comp. Circuit City is selling it for a great deal, and although I don't usually buy prefab comps, I have never been as happy with a computer purchase as I have this one- and for only 900 bucks!

HP Pavillion Media Center (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-Pavilion-Media-Center-m9340f-Desktop-PC-KQ497AA-ABA/sem/rpsm/oid/213654/catOid/-12962/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700
6 GB DDR2 Ram
Windows Vista 64
750 GB HD
NVIDIA GeForce 9500GS

Performance is great - was easy deleting all the HP junk off the HD as well. Sculpting at 16 million polys on a single mesh in ZBrush posed no problem.

[Aftermath]

Thats an awesome comp deal Ancient-pig!


Heres my build i just finished a few days ago for 950$.

Tested:
Zbrush Max Quads on screen: 35mil (70 mil Triangles)
3d Max Imports: 14 million triangles

Vista Experience Rating: 5.9

Processor: Intel QuadCore 9450 2.6
Graphics Card: PNY 9600GT 512MB
RAM: 8GB Corsair (4 sticks)
MOBO: Gigabyte EP45-DS3R
HARD DRIVE: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

[Ancient-Pig]

Nice machine Aftermath!

[Parnell]

ok so I'm looking at RAM now. I want to do 8 Gigs.
Can i just buy 2 (2x2) GSkill Kits?
Is GSkill Ram good? I've heard OCZ but then I've heard they aren't....it seems pretty arbitrary. I checked out the EVGA site about the MOBO i got 780i.
I looked at this RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122
If I buy 2 of these (2gb x 2) slots of Ram I'll have 8 gigs for $139!
Does the "high performance RAM" make that big of a difference? i really have no plans to Overclock...I just want this thing to run and not die on me.
B

[ThatDon]

low ram timings will always benefit you overlocked or not. OCZ is boss, GSkill is great for the price

[Parnell]

low ram timing?! I'm stupid what does that mean?

[carcass]

my rig:

P4 3.0 GHz
512 MB RAM
256 MB nvidia fx 5200

:paper:

Max 5 runs like a dream.

[Inpw]

I'm need advice about upgrade too :)

1. I want to buy LCD monitor (my old - CRT) and found this one: LG L2000CP (http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/l2000cp.jhtml). What do you think about it? For me it looks a bit suspicious because it very cheap - about 400$

2. Question about OS. What is better Vista or XP (64bit of course)?

BTW. Other confguration looks this way(hope I can finish upgrade during this week and take part in UE challenge):
CPU: Core 2 Quad Q6600
RAM: 8Gb
Video: GeForce 8600GT

[Parnell]

Ok so I went with 8 gig GSkill PC2 8000 RAM. It got 429 reviews and was rated incredibly high. It is also listed on the EVGA 780i Mem approved list.
So I purchased the comp from cyberpowerpc.com. I rushed the build of the computer to 1 day build for $109. So the actual Price of the comp is about $150 less if you don't want super rushed shipping and building like I needed. The 5% coupon was a nice added bonus from retailmenot.com. Thanks for that tip!!

Coupon: SMARTCOMPU (5% Discount) -$71.65
SUBTOTAL $1,361.35
Sales Tax (N/A) $0.00
Shipping: Fedex 2 Day $95.00
Fuel Surcharge $14.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GRAND TOTAL $1,470.35

Plus the 8 gigs of Ram from newegg.com
Subtotal: 159.98
TAX: 0.00
Shipping and Handling Charge**: 2.99
Rush Order Fee:2.99
Total: 162.97

Vista Ultimate Retail for $60
It pays to have friends at microsoft:)

so total is
1470.35
162.97
+ 60.00
-----------
1693.32
if I didn't Rush build and Rush ship
It'd be $1554.32
Woot!
B

[ReplicA]

That's awesome, modeling_man, glad to see you're getting a great computer. I'll be even more glad to see what you can do with it, though. ;) Sounds like this computer will allow you to dominate those polygons, and bend them to your will!

Oh, and if you could, would you mind giving us a "report" of how vista works with your 3d software? I've been VERY reluctant to try vista with it, as I've never liked the OS, but if it'll run the software better than xp, or xp 64x, it'd be nice to know.

[Parnell]

Sure thang!
B

[Parnell]

Ok so cyberpowerpc.com was a bust. I checked in on my order and their 1 day "rush delivery" became a 10-15 day build.
My order has been canceled and am thinking I'll take the plunge go PRO and build it myself. It scares the shit out of me to do it but i don't think I have much more of a choice.
B

[ThatDon]

...........alienware :p

[Marcus Dublin]

Ok so cyberpowerpc.com was a bust. I checked in on my order and their 1 day "rush delivery" became a 10-15 day build.
My order has been canceled and am thinking I'll take the plunge go PRO and build it myself. It scares the shit out of me to do it but i don't think I have much more of a choice.
B

I wouldn't be to worried about assembling the rig yourself. It's all very self explanatory and most bare bone kits come with solid documentation which will take you from point a to z in no time. I would say though to be careful when handling your CPU, it's a bit of a b&%tch when trying to place into the motherboard. Good luck and keep us posted!:thumb:

[BiG ToE]

building the computer will be fool proof.

Tip, build it on the floor, or find a large clean desk that you can lay everything on. Also, if you can, take the motherboard tray out of the case before you add the CPu and ram. It will be that much easier. You might want to go ahaed and install the CPU fan while you are at it.

After that, the rest is easy.

[ReplicA]

Damn, man, sorry to hear that. I'd try and find an excuse for it, but I don't thin there is one. That's pretty pathetic.

Putting a computer together yourself is not that hard though. Just check your components, make sure they'll work together right, all the slots and ports and hoodads are the kind you need. And when you're looking at the board, and parts in front of you, it's really self explanatory.

[cookepuss]

Ok so cyberpowerpc.com was a bust. I checked in on my order and their 1 day "rush delivery" became a 10-15 day build.

I think that you were maybe being a bit hasty. You have to understand one thing. Custom configs aren't just haphazardly slapped together and shipped out. For Cyberpower to do that would be irresponsible. Any custom build has to go through a process.

1) Take & process your order
2) Send it off to assembly/manufacturing. Obviously, you're not going to be the first person in the build queue.
3) If every part is available, then building starts. If not, they've got to get the requested part in stock.
4) Once built, the PC has to go through a burn in and testing phase. This is to ensure that everything's running a-okay and that nothing is defective. This process usually takes about 72 hours with most companies. If there is something seriously wrong, the problem is tracked down, the component replaced, and the burn in process begins again.
5) Only after the PC has passed its warranty of merchantability - proving it to be reasonably worthy of normal use - will they ship it out to you.

I've ordered pre-configured PCs before. You can get those overnight. I've also ordered custom builds before, based on online "configurators." Those can indeed take 10-15 days. That, is indeed a reasonable period of time.

ThatDon: Don't make me slap you, man. :) Alienware sells solid specs, but they are so unreasonably overpriced it's not funny. You can often build a comparable machine for the fraction of the price.

[cookepuss]

building the computer will be fool proof.
Foolproof if you know what you're doing and are prepared to deal with device conflicts. Otherwise, it might be proof that somebody is a fool. :) You've always gotta research component specs thoroughly. Even somethings as small as a sound card or improperly clocked/paired/chosen RAM stick can throw a system into chaos.

[BiG ToE]

I was referring to bare bones kits (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3837301&CatId=333), where all the main parts are picked out for you. All you need to do is pick a OS and buy more ram if you want it.

the one in the link is the one I used as my starting point.

[ThatDon]

ThatDon: Don't make me slap you, man. :) Alienware sells solid specs, but they are so unreasonably overpriced it's not funny. You can often build a comparable machine for the fraction of the price.

Exactly why I build my own, But I wanted to see if modeling_man would bite...you took all the fun away :(

[cookepuss]

you took all the fun away :(
Cause I'm a pr***. :p

[Parnell]

I think that you were maybe being a bit hasty. You have to understand one thing. Custom configs aren't just haphazardly slapped together and shipped out. For Cyberpower to do that would be irresponsible. Any custom build has to go through a process.

1) Take & process your order
2) Send it off to assembly/manufacturing. Obviously, you're not going to be the first person in the build queue.
3) If every part is available, then building starts. If not, they've got to get the requested part in stock.
4) Once built, the PC has to go through a burn in and testing phase. This is to ensure that everything's running a-okay and that nothing is defective. This process usually takes about 72 hours with most companies. If there is something seriously wrong, the problem is tracked down, the component replaced, and the burn in process begins again.
5) Only after the PC has passed its warranty of merchantability - proving it to be reasonably worthy of normal use - will they ship it out to you.

I've ordered pre-configured PCs before. You can get those overnight. I've also ordered custom builds before, based on online "configurators." Those can indeed take 10-15 days. That, is indeed a reasonable period of time.

ThatDon: Don't make me slap you, man. :) Alienware sells solid specs, but they are so unreasonably overpriced it's not funny. You can often build a comparable machine for the fraction of the price.

Well, I'm a bit confused because they stated the $109 dollars extra I was paying to "rush 1 business day". It said "estimated ship date 9/09" I assumed meant one business day build so it'd probably ship out late on Tuesday (ordered on Sunday) I also 2 day Fed Ex'd for an additional $95 and figured it'd arrive on Thursday, most likely Friday.
The problem was I hadn't received anything except "order received" by 3pm on Monday so I got a little worried that something wasn't right. So i priced out the computer again (since it was Monday they updated their price. It was $35 less now! doh!) However, what really threw me off was now they were no longer showing "rush 1 day build" instead they just showed 3, 5 and 5-10 business day. I knew I had to call them to figure out if there was a problem. Sure enough they were no longer doing the "1 day ready to ship" and also said they weren't doing the 3 day either and that ALL computers were taking 10-15 days. They said I should have been called about the problem and that my account manager was on lunch (probably an excuse but I wasn't pissed off just glad I caught it in advance). I'm not knocking cyberpowerpc.com nor am I saying they were trying to pull a fast one. I actually recommend them as I was able to talk with a service rep pretty damn fast. I think they just got overwhelmed with college students and the new school year.
B

[JacqueChoi]

Dude, it'll be totally worth it when you get that machine.

Not only will you make insanely awesome art. But I'm pretty sure the specs on the machine you're buying is capable of controlling the birds, controlling weather, and distorting time (You might need to get the flux capacitator for that last one though).

[Aftermath]

im almost sure you have a shop that is local that you can buy the board and processor from and have them test it with the ram (which means they place the cpu for you) and then its plug and play after that. It would be alot cheaper then the prices youve posted anyways. But me and Ancient Pig posted you specs that would be cheaper with a better result i think.

For the person who asked about vista with 3d apps, i run 64 bit vista biz and im loving it ive had no issues with my 3d or 2d apps yet.

[ReplicA]

Hey aftermath, that was me that asked about vista for 3d apps. I don't wanna hijack this thread, so I'll PM you with a couple of questions.

[cookepuss]

Might as well discuss it here anyway. No doubt, modeling_man is going to be getting his feet wet with Vista x64 too. It couldn't hurt.

Personally, I've had nothing but good experiences with Vista x64 thus far. Stable as hell. Much improved driver support. Much improved OS speed, although RAM overhead is significantly higher than in XP. Solid 64-bit app support, although some apps are quicker to adopt 64-bit than others. Equally good codec support. My only complaint with codecs is that native Quicktime encoding gives me trouble at times, at least within C4D. Waiting for my v11 upgrade to come in to see if that situation has changed. Doesn't matter anyway since I export as frames and build the animations outside of C4D itself.

[Aftermath]

I will just paste the questions here since replica had some really good ones others might have as well.


Originally Posted by ReplicA
Hey, thanks for the info on the "need a pc" thread, I just got a few more questions for ya.

How does it compare to XP64, with graphics apps, but also with general apps, games, that kinda thing?

Is there a way to make it more like xp, visually, and with commands? For example, is there a way to make copy/paste over a pre-existing a file, less than a five step process? (I tried that with vista, it took forever, and didn't actually replace the file)

Can you get rid of all the widgets, and junk for good?

I'm basically wondering because xp 64 is not the most stable OS, and doesn't have a lot of smaller apps that are compatible with it. I had a heck of a time trying to find a firewall that was decent, and I'm getting tired of having to change the code of game .exe's just so I can install them on my pc.

Anyway, thanks for the info, and I hope I'm not bugging ya too much with this.

Reply: Aftermath
Your not bugging me man im more then happy to awnser your questions.

As for the stupid UAC stuff vista has for the 50 steps to do things i disabled it so the os would run like xp and not bug me 50 times when i wanted to run and app or copy something. If your pc savey you dont need it. Its more for the old people who dont know how to use pcs and downlaod viruses like mad people.

As for virus protection and firewall i use defender with advance high settings for that with windows live one care and avast to support it. Avast is free for non corperate people. Defender is built into vista and its pretty powerful.

So far i havent crashed the os yet and ive been close to locking it up trying to crash max and zbrush to test my limits. Its really stable you need to dedicate 1gb to the os because its vista but i use 8gb's so it flys for me.

Widgets have been disabled, i still run areo just because it looks cool but if you want you can take all of the prettyness away from vista and turn it into bland settings.

I run crysis and cod4 on very high settings and they run smooth as can be. As for why vista is good its the only way to get DX 10. Max 2009 uses dx 10 shaders now and rendering. Crysis and nextgen games use dx 10 shaders so to get the quality of games like crysis,cod4,ut3 you have to install vista.

I am sold man i use to be all about xp but ive been running vista 32 bit on my laptop at school for a yr now no issues once you update it.

Im in love with the 64bit version now, alot of the big bugs are fixed i was able to get most all of my drivers fine.

Anything else feel free to ask.

[cookepuss]

How does it compare to XP64, with graphics apps, but also with general apps, games, that kinda thing?
I can't speak for anybody else, but I have had some bad experiences with XP64. Between sketchy drivers and corrupted installs, XP64 was a nightmare. That's why I reverted back to XP Pro before finally jumping to Vista x64.

Vista x64 hasn't given me a day's problem yet. Stable drivers. Quick installation process, from scratch or upgrade. Not a hitch running any of my favorite apps, which include: Photoshop, ZBrush, AfterEffects, Premiere, Dreamweaver, Office, Cinema4D Studio, etc. Many key CG apps are now 64-bit compatible, which is an added bonus.


Is there a way to make it more like xp, visually, and with commands?
Visually, turn off the Aero component and go back to old style start button menus. That'll make it look quite a bit like XP. On the downside, Aero provides some much needed GUI acceleration via your computer's GPU. Aero, as an interface model, takes up a little more RAM, but it is much faster than the standard XP-like GUI.

For example, is there a way to make copy/paste over a pre-existing a file, less than a five step process? (I tried that with vista, it took forever, and didn't actually replace the file)
For one file, it's not a pain. Vista offers you the option of full replace or keeping both copies. Just select the former. For multiple files, do the same thing, but click the bottom tick that asks you to do it for all of the following dupe files.

Can you get rid of all the widgets, and junk for good?
Yeah. Just go to the properties for the Windows Sidebar and disable it at startup. That'll prevent it from ever loading again.

I'm basically wondering because xp 64 is not the most stable OS, and doesn't have a lot of smaller apps that are compatible with it.
Vista x64, especially after SP1, is rock solid and quite fast. All of my key programs run with it. Even with the small apps, I haven't had one that hasn't run yet. Any "problems" I've had usually comes down to something like a goofy video driver. However, NVIDIA has been very good with driver support on this front lately.

I had a heck of a time trying to find a firewall that was decent,
Comodo Firewall is the firewall of choice for Vista x64. Zone Alarm works on the 32-bit Vista, but not on the 64-bit one yet. A beta should be available for public consumption soon, according to their forum.

As for the stupid UAC stuff vista has for the 50 steps to do things i disabled it so the os would run like xp and not bug me 50 times when i wanted to run and app or copy something.
Yeah. I disable it too. UAC is garbage. However, it's an easy to disable service. I also disable the Windows Firewall, as well as Window Defender and a couple of other non-essential system services that do nothing but annoy or scoop up RAM.


As for virus protection and firewall i use defender with advance high settings for that with windows live one care and avast to support it.
Windows Defender and Windows Firewall are no real substitute for a dedicated solution. Windows Firewall, in advanced mode, is as capable as any commercial firewall (maybe more). However, it needs a lot more hand holding and manual configuration. Defender, at least for me, tends to be more annoying than helpful.

Avast is free for non corperate people.
AVG Free is a very good anti-virus solution too. Just disable the Link Scanner. It's a burden on the web browsers.

Its really stable you need to dedicate 1gb to the os because its vista but i use 8gb's so it flys for me.
Same here. I've got 8GB myself and I really don't care much about the increased overhead. The fact that I've got more addressable RAM more than makes up for it.

You can also save RAM by disabling stuff like System Restore, Error Reporting, Indexing Services, and Remote Desktop. I never have any need for any of those. Disabling them keep my PC sailing smoothly.

Another thing. Forget Vista x64's built-in defrag tool. It stinks. Use AusLogics Disk Defrag instead. It's faster and you get better visual feedback as to what's actually going on. Plus, it's free. :)

I am sold man i use to be all about xp but ive been running vista 32 bit on my laptop at school for a yr now no issues once you update it.
No kidding. I looked at one of the older PCs here that has XP. I wondered why I ever used it. :) Vista gets a bad rap from both early problems and those stupid Mac commercials. It's actually a good OS. About the only thing that bugs me about it is that XP's search tool was more intuitive and reliable, imo.

[chai]

I've recently upgrade my machine to a quadcore, 8gb ram, 1tb HD with vista 64bit.

Vista can be reverted pretty close to XP but there are a few exceptions :
1. they changed the backspace in explorer to alt-up (going up a folder), there's no way to change that.
2. the copy and replace menu is highly unintuitive, huge and clattered.
3. there is not way to currently change the breadcrumbs in vista 64bit SP1.
4. there are silly arrows near the explorer tabs, that I didn't find a way to disable and just clatter things for me.
5. I would recommend you to have your old XP partition on another HD to boot from, just in case. (some drivers might not work, especially sound drivers, some programs will work different, etc)

* All 32bit programs can be installed and run in 32bit mode.
* Make sure to update you 3ds max copy if you're getting any errors, they have patches to fix vista issues.

All in all, if you do 3d art for a living, it's well worth the upgrade.

[cookepuss]

A lot of what you bring up is really just nitpicking though. Little of it really distracts from the basic experience, especially as it relates to getting your day to day work done.

To be honest, there's very little reason to actually dual boot with Vista & XP. I'm sure that it'll provide a certain level of comfort early on, but XP's bound to overstay its welcome soon enough.

I can only speak for myself as a C4D user, but I've found that Vista does not keep me from getting my work done.

Unless you're a big studio and simply don't want to shell out the money or take the time to upgrade dozens of PCs, I can't see the logic in staying with an old OS.

Early adopters of Vista got a raw deal. Vista was released too early and it showed. Driver support was a mess. Hardware compatibility was a nightmare. App compatibility was even worse.

However, as we near 2009, Vista's no longer that that same premature birth of an OS. It has indeed matured quite a bit. Now, if you don't like certain nitpicky aspects of the OS that's fine. However, says more about the individual user and less about the substantive qualities of the OS itself.

A year ago, I wouldn't have recommended Vista to my worse enemy. Today, I honestly and wholeheartedly would recommend that people dump XP. It's not an OS designed for old clunker PC hardware, but life is about change and evolution. If it weren't we'd still be using Commodore64 or Apple IIe machines. There's a good chance that if your system can't even keep up with the demands of Vista then CG work might prove even more problematic.

I think that, for the bulk of this community, Vista finally has gotten its act together - from hardware to software to drivers. If your 3D app is still crashing like a drunken frat boy then maybe your complaints should be with the app developer instead of MS. Not really a fair comment to make, but it's probably accurate. Vista isn't exactly a new OS after all. Devs have had more than enough time to play catch up.

[Parnell]

Early adopters of Vista got a raw deal. Vista was released too early and it showed. Driver support was a mess. Hardware compatibility was a nightmare. App compatibility was even worse.


No doubt. I remember back in the day running Windows 2000 and thinking it was the greatest OS of all time. When XP came out it was having problems (typically people upgrading with not enough RAM or CPU power to run the new OS). I fought like crazy to not switch over...when I did I was shocked to not have all the problems that people were telling me I'd have. XP was probably the most stable OS I had more so than Windows 2000!

So...how did i post this msg? Was I at work? NO. I am on my new computer!
Running a VERY FAST, VERY SLICK Windows Vista Ultimate 64. YUM.
So far no problems installing anything. Still need to install Zbrush and Max.
So far i got my cintiq up and running, my sound card, GFX, Office Vista, and Adobe Suite all working together nicely. I'm excited to look into some of the new features as it seems to be a pretty slick OS.
B

[ReplicA]

Great news, modeling_man!! Glad to hear you got your new pc, and things are working alright so far.

[Aftermath]

To install max make sure you update to SP1 AND SP2 or else it wont work on vista for you. Also zbrush has issues with vista with loading so right click the exe and set it to run as administrator.

[Parnell]

To install max make sure you update to SP1 AND SP2 or else it wont work on vista for you. Also zbrush has issues with vista with loading so right click the exe and set it to run as administrator.

Holy Crap! Thanks dude. I just spent the last hour trying to track down someone on zbrushcentral.com to help me with my "license error" i was getting. The "run as admin" just solved the problem. I was able to activate Zbrush and it runs like BUTTER:)
I can't believe the polycounts I can work at now.
YUM YUM YUM.
B

[Parnell]

YUM YUM YUM
I just subdivided until i couldn't subdivide anymore.
The helmet has like 27million, and the head had 12 million.
There were still a bunch of hidden objects too..NO SLOWDOWN either when I would spin the model around...not even a hitch!!!
http://www.subshape.com/zbrushrules.jpg
64 bit + 8 gigs of RAM = FTW
B

[ReplicA]

HOLY CRAP!!! That's some serious polycounts man! 8gb's of RAM FTW for sure. But I'm stuck with 4gb for the foreseeable future... :(

Ok, so you got great polycounts now, and there's no slow downs for ya, so GET TO WORK!! I wanna see something amazing out of this new fangled pc of yours.

[Aftermath]

glad i could help modeling man!

[Parnell]

The saga continues!
The computer has twice now immediately shutdown during rendering. Upon inspection of the BIOS i found the CPU was running nice and hot at 82C. YOUCH! So i'm thinking the heat sink wasn't placed on properly OR the stock heat sink just sucks all together. So i'm off to Microcenter to buy a PRO heat sink and hopefully nip this in the bud.
B

[Aftermath]

you should also update your bios, i had a issue with the mobo coming with a way outdated bios on mine. It didnt like me shoving 8gbs of ram and the video card in it. So it would restart itself when it felt like. Most likely this is your issue too. Also if you buy the mobo ram and proc from microcenter they will seat it and test it for you for free.

[rv_el]

I built my current machine quite a while ago and it has a primary XP setup and a secondary (use only when needed) Vista 64 setup. I hand swap the cables from one HD to the other (which i very much recommend!!!! - HD's are cheap as hell anyways, and dual boot can cause issues). This worked out very well for me.......

But now at work i use Vista full time, and i must say it really has come along like Cookepuss is saying! Some others at work have had some issues with a few things but i've been very lucky it seems.

I have a new machine coming now, and my plan is to go full Vista (if i can). So far theres just a few small obsucre things that dont work in Vista that i would run on XP. But replacements or workarounds for these things are always coming. There are some usability things in Vista (once you get all the lame shit worked out) that is very nice. I still have a few kinks to work out myself though.


* Speaking of early adopters. I got hit hard by buying a newly released Athlon 550 (Amd Bridges) + Geforce 1 and installing Windows 2000 shortly after. There was a multitude of problems which had me quickly formatting and going back to Win98-SE and accidentally losing an art PSD i had on my desktop - which is one of the reasons i'm super organized today, and NEVER put shit i'm not willing to lose on the desktop.

[Twindragon]

All this talk about building a pc has made me want to build my own. I have some question regarding different processors.

I notice many of you go for the Intel quad 2 core as the cpu of choice.. I was looking into the Intel Xeon e5420 as its about the same price and speed. What are the differences in going for the Xeon over the quad 2 core?

I was also wondering if I buy 1 cpu then want to upgrade by buying the second later down the line to make it a dual would that be worth it or do computers change so frequently that I might as well go for something good but cheaper and wait till everything is completely obsolete and buy new from scratch. (btw can you put 2 core 2 quads together?)

Last question regarding graphics cards. What is the difference between buying a workstation card over a gaming card? Im looking at the nvidia Quadro FX 1700.

Thanks.

this is what im running currently it can run 64 bit but the motherboard can only use DDR1 so its behind the times so I really want to upgrade to faster and more ram, run 64 bit windows so I can push a ton more polys in zbrush as well.

(dual) amd opteron 250
2gigs ram
ati firegl v5100 graphics card

[Aftermath]

In my past experience with workstation cards is that they dont run games very well they just run the 3d apps well . We are all work on game art so we would need to have the game able to run at max settings so we could see our objects at their best results. Thats my main reason for getting a high end gaming card.


Get a new mobo that supports ddr 3 ram its super fast.

My Build is super cheap and can be bought now for probably cheaper.

[ReplicA]

I know I'm a bit late to the game here, with modeling-man's pc on the fritz being the topic, but I got another vista question.

I have to share files with clients all the time, and between computers here (laptop to pc) so do vista, and xp 64x have any problems with transferring files?

Example 1, I'm hired to make a game model which I do in Vista. If I want to send the model and files to the client who is running xp 64x, will there be any problems?

Example 2, I'm working on a model in xp 64x, on my pc, and I have to take a trip. Deadlines won't allow for any days off, so I need to put the file on my laptop, with vista, to keep working while away from the pc. Will there be any conflicts when I want to send the file back to the pc to finish it off?

The whole vista DRM thing seems like a giant PITA, and is another big reason I've stayed away from it. Any help with these questions would be appreciated.

[Aftermath]

I know I'm a bit late to the game here, with modeling-man's pc on the fritz being the topic, but I got another vista question.

I have to share files with clients all the time, and between computers here (laptop to pc) so do vista, and xp 64x have any problems with transferring files?

Example 1, I'm hired to make a game model which I do in Vista. If I want to send the model and files to the client who is running xp 64x, will there be any problems?

Example 2, I'm working on a model in xp 64x, on my pc, and I have to take a trip. Deadlines won't allow for any days off, so I need to put the file on my laptop, with vista, to keep working while away from the pc. Will there be any conflicts when I want to send the file back to the pc to finish it off?

The whole vista DRM thing seems like a giant PITA, and is another big reason I've stayed away from it. Any help with these questions would be appreciated.

1) Nope
2) Nope

You can disable it as me and cookepuss mentioned above if you wish.

All good to go Replica Take the dive and upgrade!

[ReplicA]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm still not to sure about it, I've heard everyone talk about how great it is, but you also have a hell of a lot more RAM than I do, actually your pc's are at least twice as fast as mine. But there's really no way for me to tell if it'll work for me till I try it out for a week or so. Which I'll be doing. Thanks for the help guys, and I'll let you know how this "reluctant vista user" feels about it in a few days to a week.

And here's hoping all the videos, and music I have with no DRM will work on it... (work related media, don't freak out)

[Maph]

All this talk about building a pc has made me want to build my own. I have some question regarding different processors.

I notice many of you go for the Intel quad 2 core as the cpu of choice.. I was looking into the Intel Xeon e5420 as its about the same price and speed. What are the differences in going for the Xeon over the quad 2 core?

I was also wondering if I buy 1 cpu then want to upgrade by buying the second later down the line to make it a dual would that be worth it or do computers change so frequently that I might as well go for something good but cheaper and wait till everything is completely obsolete and buy new from scratch. (btw can you put 2 core 2 quads together?)

Last question regarding graphics cards. What is the difference between buying a workstation card over a gaming card? Im looking at the nvidia Quadro FX 1700.

Thanks.

this is what im running currently it can run 64 bit but the motherboard can only use DDR1 so its behind the times so I really want to upgrade to faster and more ram, run 64 bit windows so I can push a ton more polys in zbrush as well.

(dual) amd opteron 250
2gigs ram
ati firegl v5100 graphics card

Xeon's are great, but you can't overclock these, and I wouldn't recommend it either. But Xeon's are extremely stable and combined with some good heat sinks (Thermalright HR-01X's for example), a Xeon setup can kick some serious ass.

The downside is when you buy Xeon's, you need to upgrade everything else as well. You need a LGA 771 board, and those don't come cheap. My Supermicro X7DWA-N board alone I ordered will cost me around €500 EUR (~$600 USD), but they're more expensive over here.
And then there's the FB-DIMM memory. Fully Buffered memory is shamelessy overpriced. For one kit of 4Gb (2*2Gb) at 800Mhz you'll put down €300 EUR (~$400 USD) quickly. But the E5420 only supports up to 677Mhz if I recall correctly. And those FB-DIMM sticks are a hell lot cheaper. :)
Also, you need an EPS12V ready PSU, and those don't come cheap either. Since most of them are at 1kW of power.

As for combining two core 2 quads. I think the only board that can do that, is the skulltrail system. And that's a brushed up server board. :)

If you can spare the cash and you need the extra CPU power, I'd go for a dual Xeon setup with a high end gaming card. As I agree with Aftermath on the whole workstation graphics card thing. You're better off investing that money in a high end gaming card and extra memory.
These setups aren't cheap, but they're not unaffordable as they were a few years ago.

Mind you, you won't get an extreme increase in gaming performance with a dual proc setup though. Not so sure how many games utilize multi-cores/proc effectively, but I bet there aren't a lot of them. :)

[BiG ToE]

came across this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/email/wem1713.asp?SRCCODE=WEM1713V&cm_mmc=Email-_-Main-_-WEM1713-_-compo) today, for anyone thinking of building a computer, it could be usefull.

[ReplicA]

Thanks for (kinda) resurrecting this thread, Big toe. It reminded me that I said I was gonna talk about my experiences with Vista.

First, I had to use my mom's laptop for a while, as that's the only computer in the house with vista on it. I put ZB3.1 on it, and to my amazement, I was able to get 27 million poly's on a model, with some slowdown, but nothing I couldn't work with. I'd have to wait a second or two after any edits before I got my brush back. I was really amazed, cause it's an HP pavilion laptop, with a crappy nvidia card, 3gb's of ram, and an amd 64x2 at 2ghz. Not bad, but not great either.

I got my laptop today, and it has vista on it (not to mention THREE backslash keys...). It has 3gb's ram, amd turion 64x2 at 1.6ghz, and I'm able to work with about 14 mil poly's. Again, kinda surprising. I have a better vid card than my mom's laptop, but I guess I took a hit in cpu... Ah well.

I'm still getting used to vista, I turned off aero, and killed most of the extra crap, but I'm still using 500+mb just having the thing on. that's pretty annoying. I'm getting used to some of the "features" of vista. I'm really hoping that it'll run MB2009 when it hits. Really psyched to use that.

Anyway, I'll keep trudging on with vista for a while, but if it stays annoying, I'm probably gonna toss it for xp 64x. I'm hoping for good news, as I'm sick of installing OS's....

[cookepuss]

It has 3gb's ram, amd turion 64x2 at 1.6ghz, and I'm able to work with about 14 mil poly's. Again, kinda surprising.
No. Not surprising at all. You're comparing two different systems. AFAIK, ZBrush is video card independent. It doesn't matter if you've got a better video card than your mother. The fact is, for a 1.6GHz laptop and 3GB RAM, 14mil polys isn't too shabby. 1.6GHz is pretty mediocre - even for a laptop. You're getting decent performance. You could do worse. I can see reason to complain if you were getting different results on the same system, but different OS. However, apples, meet oranges.

but I'm still using 500+mb just having the thing on.
That's a totally reasonable number. Actually, that's probably the lowest I've seen it. On my PC, Vista idle in at about 1.2GB. That's with a ton of nonessential services and background apps turned off too. I've got 8GB of RAM so that's not a huge issue though.

You're used to XP, which runs at about 1/2 of what you're currently seeing on Vista. Thank the heavens that you're only using 500MB. That's a sick amount of optimization that you must've done. It's not as bad as you think.

Anyway, I'll keep trudging on with vista for a while, but if it stays annoying, I'm probably gonna toss it for xp 64x. I'm hoping for good news, as I'm sick of installing OS's....
You're hoping for miracles. Vista is a beefy OS. There are some added features, useless and quite useful, that contribute to this extra overhead. If your system is chugging along with Vista then the solution is clear. You don't need to resort to using XP64, which has a death sentence on its head. You need a modern PC capable of handling a modern OS. Not a great thing to say, especially if you can't afford a new PC, but it's the truth. As I said before, a 1.6GHz laptop machine is not exactly a spec designed for high performance CG work. I've got a similar laptop, also running Vista and ZB. It's only okay for CG. I mainly use it for project management and maybe as a spare render node.

[ReplicA]

You seem to have misunderstood me, cookepuss. I was surprised that I was able to get that many poly's on a laptop, with that cpu. I rarely EVER go to 14 million poly's, unless it's a very complex model with lots of parts, so it should be good for whatever I do with it. I'm VERY happy with my laptop, especially since it was only $500. And yeah, I know ZB doesn't rely on the vid card, that's why I upped the RAM to 3gb's, instead of the 1gb the laptop came with. I'm really not complaining, I was shocked at the fact that decent 3d work actually could be done on a budget laptop.

500mb's with an idle pc is good? Ok, I don't get that at all, but whatever. Maybe I'm just psycho about how much RAM I have available, which could be possible, since I'm psycho about a lot of things. ;)

And the way you talk in this last paragraph is kind of odd. I'm not hoping for miracles, at all, I don't know where you get that idea. Not accusing you of anything, I just find the wording there odd. I know 1.6ghz is low, even with dual cores, but I'm super happy with my laptop. What I wanted out of it was to maybe start some projects on the road, then transfer the files to my pc, where I could then finish them. What I got was something I might be able to start AND finish projects on. I don't need an uber-computer, just something powerful enough to do my work with, and this laptop suffices. I'm not the kinda guy that's all about the pc numbers, and (no offense here, seriously) needs to display to everyone else how "great" their own pc is all the time. As long as it does what I need, I'm good with it. And with 14 mil poly's, this laptop will do what I need. I'm just not a fan of vista right now.

Anyway, I honestly mean no offense to anyone with I said here, just trying to get my point across, that I like my laptop, but I'm still on the fence about vista. I'm giving it time, since I've only used it for a few days, and jumping to conclusions can be a very bad thing.

[cookepuss]

You seem to have misunderstood me, cookepuss. I was surprised that I was able to get that many poly's on a laptop, with that cpu.
See? That's what happens when I eat lunch and reply at the same time. My bad. :p

500mb's with an idle pc is good? Ok, I don't get that at all, but whatever.
Yeah. Here's mine, taken totally idle:

http://www.robertsanta.com/images/task_manager.jpg

500MB is nothing.


500mb's with an idle pc is good? Ok, I don't get that at all, but whatever. Maybe I'm just psycho about how much RAM I have available, which could be possible, since I'm psycho about a lot of things.
I'm the same way with security. I get totally obsessed over that stuff.

And the way you talk in this last paragraph is kind of odd.
Me talk odd? Unga! Argh!! ;) Again, posting with a slice a pizza in one hand and a keyboard in the other.... not recommended. :)

What I got was something I might be able to start AND finish projects on.
Might. Yeah. That all depends on the scope and nature of the projects. I understand that you don't need an uber computer. You may need something a bit more modern and up to the task, but what you have should suffice for most smaller to mid-sized projects. Something like what you have is very likely best suited for stills. I tend to deal with a lot of character animation, motion graphics, and compositing so I can see where you might hit some limitations though.

I'm just not a fan of vista right now.
You'll get use to it. :) Like I said, no sense in becoming attached to an OS that's about on its way out of this mortal coil. XP is legacy. I was a big fan of my Commodore 64, but life goes on.

Anyway, I honestly mean no offense to anyone with I said here
It'll take a LOT more than that to get me offended. I'm a New Yorker. I hear worse than that from people coming out of church. :)

I'm giving it time, since I've only used it for a few days, and jumping to conclusions can be a very bad thing
Yeah. Give it time. It takes a bit to get used to. It may look like good old XP with a fancy visual makeover, but there's a lot of new stuff under the hood. That's why the extra RAM overhead. It's a beast. Supposedly, Windows 7 will run much leaner and streamlined. However, that won't be out for a good 12-18 months, if we're to believe MS' schedule. (Hopefully, they've got a project manager who knows how to stick to a dev schedule this time.)

[ReplicA]

Yeah, after the incredibly difficult glance at your occupation, I can see where you're coming from. I'm just a lowly modeler, so I just make characters and monsters all day. I'm not gonna need a powerhouse, just something I can get a decent poly count on, and render my maps with. I don't do animation, which I know is a hog, I don't do a lot of crazy stuff with it. Modeling, and texturing, and everything I do is for games, so I don't have to worry about bogging the pc down with special effects, either.

I used to be psycho about my pc security as well, but that's starting to die off. I saw there's no peerguardian for vista, and didn't really care. Just surfed the net care-free :)

Ooohh, comparing xp to commodore64.... That's rough! Guess I'm just not an early adopter of anything coming out of ms. I was against xp for a long time, too. Just stuck with windows 98 (bleeeeechh). I'm pretty sure I'll warm up to vista soon enough. Like I said, I'm sooo sick of installing os's, I probably won't change it out of shear laziness.

Oh, and another surprising thing about my laptop, it actually came with a windows recovery disk. I haven't seen one of those since our packard-bell x86, over ten years ago. I was literally shocked into silence.

[cookepuss]

I saw there's no peerguardian for vista,
Well, there's the beta, but it's kinda unstable and you really have to jump through hoops just to get it to work. (It's a driver signing issue, iirc.)

Ooohh, comparing xp to commodore64.... That's rough!
:) My point being, you can get so attached to something that you love or have become accustomed to that its so very easy to reject anything new. Time moves on and you have to just move on with it. I hated leaving behind my old C64 for that shiny new x386. On the C64, I had my pre-Wacom digitizer tablet, lots of software, and a predictable level of stability. On the x386, I had MS-DOS, which had crappy hardware driver support, mediocre art software, and a (then) relatively small software library.

I loved my old C64 and hated my new x386 just as much as you hate Vista and love XP. Still, time marches on. I grew to love DOS and hate Window95, but switched when the time came anyway.

There was a point many years ago, when I couldn't ever imaging filling a 40MB hard drive or needing more than 64MB of RAM. Now, I find that it's a delicate balance just fitting some of my work into 8GB RAM and 2.5TB HDD.

The only thing in this world that is constant is change.

Guess I'm just not an early adopter of anything coming out of ms.
I can certainly understand that. MS' project management and bloat control has gotten totally crazy. They release half-baked products like WinME or BOB. They prematurely release OSes before they're finished, as with Vista (pre-SP1) and Win98 (pre-SE). Being an early adopter for MS stuff doesn't pay. Just know that Vista has been out long enough now to have a vast majority of the big issues worked out. There are still some smaller workflow issues, but right now's about as good a time as any to switch over to Vista. Any later and you'll end up becoming an early adopter of Windows 7.

Oh, and another surprising thing about my laptop, it actually came with a windows recovery disk.
Yeah. None of my PCs have recover disks. I just burn & ISO the images the moment I get my PCs. My current PC recovery spans 3 full DVDs.

You actually made me think of all of the little things that have disappeared from my PC over the years. I haven't had a PC with a CD-ROM, 56k, printer ports, or floppy drive in years. Looking even closer, my PC doesn't even have a built-in speaker for all of those beeps anymore either. Kinda weird how I barely noticed them disappear. :)

[ReplicA]

Got a rather annoying issue with Max 9 and vista now. I tried to install Max, but I only get the 32bit option, 64bit is nowhere to be seen. So I explore the disk, find the 64bit install, and go from there. Only now I get an error stating something about a dx9 driver being missing, and can't continue. I've updated to SP2, and done everything else I can think of, including running compatibility, and as admin. Any help would be nice. Thanks

[Shadownami92]

Got a rather annoying issue with Max 9 and vista now. I tried to install Max, but I only get the 32bit option, 64bit is nowhere to be seen. So I explore the disk, find the 64bit install, and go from there. Only now I get an error stating something about a dx9 driver being missing, and can't continue. I've updated to SP2, and done everything else I can think of, including running compatibility, and as admin. Any help would be nice. Thanks

I do my 3d work on my laptop and its a year old. Im not sure how many polys I can get to without crashing or lagging out though, havent tried. But during Dominance war II when I was testing the high poly importing into 3ds max and working with it I was able to run it pretty smooth. :D

As for your problem the only thing I can think of is checking to make sure you have Direct X 9c installed :S

[ReplicA]

So dx10 isn't a good thing? I admit, I know nothing about dx10, just that it only works with vista. So I haven't installed dx9. Will that hurt performance or anything?

[Lamont]

I have two lic of Vista Ultimate 64 from that program MS did this year. Might get to installing it when I do my yearly wipe. I heard of people having dongle issues with a few apps, and I don't wanna get stuck with that, but since I don't do freelance anymore, I can take the risk.

As for the topic of this, here is a comp close to what I am running now:

http://www.digitalweaponx.net/Forums/GameA/QuickComp.jpg

[Lamont]

Alright Cooke, I did the Vista install and most of the updates. So far so good. If there are any issues, I have a vague idea where you live. And I'm not in Cali anymore so you should be worried :D!!

[Aftermath]

Lamont good to hear you finally took the plung, also welcome to the frozen tundra will this be your first winter?