George Brown Game Design

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

Hello all,

Those that know me here know I've been trying (although not foaming at the mouth) to break into the industry and many of you have been extremely helpful.

I also realize that my skills are dated (in terms of technology - I still draw like a baaaad mofo) and I was thinking of returning to school.

George Brown in Toronto offers an intriguing post-grad course for old farts like me who have been in the graphics (read: not game) industry for a while and are looking to get into the video game industry before their kids do. I don't have children, but I might before I even land a game job ;)

I digress. I have applied to many smaller companies and friends on the inside have pushed my portfolio around for years now. Can any pros here tell me if this course looks like a good road in, especially for someone as passionate about games as I am, but does not have the "3 years + shipped AAA title" requirements that so many game companies request? I actually got a letter back from Ubi a couple years ago apologizing for not hiring me for that exact reason. How often does that even happen?!

Here's the link to the course outline: George Brown Game Design (http://www.georgebrown.ca/Marketing/FTCal/design/G405.aspx)

Thanks guys. I appreciate any advice on this one. I'm really into this course...

[LowRez]

hmmm looks interesting but my query is wether you want to be a designer or an artist? cause that looks more driven towards designing/lvl design/ prototyping, rather than getting relevant art skills if you want to be an artist.

As for the Ubi thing, they do send out form letter type things to show that they do read your mails etc and want you to keep applying with more experience. I'd keep applying to big studios cause they have massive turnover, are you applying for junior positions? or trying to get in on a higher salary etc, hence the lack of experience published games actually hurting you. I mean I got a job with no experience, and I know a butt load of people who also got jobs without any experience, everyone goes through the rejection thing, and keeping on working on your portfolio and applying everywhere is the key to getting that first job.

Also looking at your site, I remember alot of the work on their from the cgchat days, and whilst they're technically good, you've gone the characters route... and to get a job doing characters you need a portfolio showing of gears of war or GTA4 quality characters, and you need lots of them.

I still advocate aiming to do alot of environment work to break in, especially if your struggling to get in on the character front, I did exactly this, I had a portfolio with 1 enviro and 8 good but not great characters, I had one interview where the guy basically just asked me about my environments as thats where he had most openings and he liked my work. So for the next 4 months I busted out 5 or 6 good enviroments with props and got a job on my next interview on the day. It is so much easier to get your foot in the door doing enviro work, I've seen other people counter me on this but I'm sticking by my guns on this based on experiences of myself and about 50 friends I know across the industry who all started doing characters back in the early days and moved into environments and suddenly found themselves very employable.




If I we're you and looking to become a game artist I'd probably look for a more specific art course, rather than design orientated course, sorry if thats not what you wanted to her :(

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

no worries, thanks for the advice. My biggest problem is finding the time to just crank out portfolio worthy pieces.

I've been contemplating the enviro route as I know there are a lot more entry-level positions in that realm.

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

They also have a program that is strictly graphics, and it's over three years.

I'm trying to balance the notion of having almost a decade of graphic design and illustration under my belt with trying to get in (without rushing, per se) sooner than later.

A three year course to brush up my skills might be a good idea, but taking a Game Design course I feel would give me more insight into how to integrate the artistic side with the technical, plus give me appropriate facilities to work on my portfolio in general.

In basic terms, I want to design the characters, story and settings and let the more proficient individuals execute the actual in-game assets. I feel that I understand games quite well, and I try to show that through my imagery and ideas. I am confident in my art skills, less so my technical skills. I'm too paranoid to release the design docs I've already drafted ;)

[LowRez]

Ahh ok so you really want to be a conceptual art/designer, or just a designer? I think that the 1 years course sounds good If you want a grasp of the games design process, but I won't lie I don't know many designer/artists, most people are either 1 or the other, in our office we have about 20ish deisgners across 2 teams but only 1 concept artist who is told what we need and he just draws and sketches all day before moving onto release artwork and textures if needed etc. The Designers just design generally, I think you'd struggle to get in on some half and half role at anyhting but a small studio, and even having 2 important roles for one person could create a proper bottleneck.

I think your comment In basic terms, I want to design the characters, story and settings and let the more proficient individuals execute the actual in-game assets. says a alot about your lack of experience at games too, I think I was in exactly the same boat as you a while back, I'd have all these "great" ideas and flesh them out... but in reality a games company is more of a hive mind at the start of the project, everyone contributing and brainstorming, the designers and "money men" deciding which ideas will sell, The job you want is almost non-existant unfortunatly, cause I think most creative people would want that job, instead you can become an important part of the team filling vital roles in a project, if you go the design route it would be junior work such as balancing levels and character stats and difficulty levels, while the senior designers go about plot and storyline, and gameplay decsions... You'd be involved with the brainstorming if you arrived start of the project but I doubt theres many juniors walking into jobs and going "heres my design document" and it getting made.... Every designer Ive met has fleshed out hundreds of designs, making one that everyone loves and is willing to invest in and put years into making is another matter (again sorry for raining on your parade, I don't mean to sound so negative :P)

To me It sounds like you'd ideally want to go into a design role, which isn't a bad path to choose if you love that sort of thing, I also think it sounds like your trapped a little between 2 career paths and want to bludgeon your way somewhere into the middle of those 2 roles, Im a big fan of ambition, but I think you need to pick a speciality of either design or art at least until you get into a dev studio and are learning the trade, and your the only person who'd know which path you want to take to start with. Then you can set goals and aim towards it.

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

Hey man,

Don't worry about sounding negative, it's actually helping me focus.

The problem here is I've been working in the design industry for a while now, and while I am confident with my artistic abilities, I also know guys like me are a dime a dozen. I definitely realize that I'm trying to grab that "non-existent" job as you put it, but when I say design the characters, story and settings, (ideally) perhaps concept artist is more of the position I'm looking for. I can take direction very well, hell, I can produce anything given the right outline! The funny thing about formal education is that one never really does EXACTLY what they went to school for (in my experience). With that in mind, if I were take this course, it would be more to understand the industry from the inside out, or at least a model of it, to help pursue a career as an actual artist. I may emerge a designer, or I may emerge with a more diverse portfolio and the knowledge of how to actually implement it. I think of it more as an artist who went to business school and knows exactly how to use his artistic abilities in conjunction with economic and marketing sensibilities.

So why go back to school to get a feel for the industry and not just hit the pavement and try to get a job? Because my portfolio is dated and I'm losing steam and do not have the time to polish it!

You have been extremely insightful, I thank you for that. The guys around here have been encouraging me since the CGChat days, and while the support is nice, it really helps to get a smack upside the head every now and then.

Who knows... if I take the course and emerge a designer, maybe there will be more studios in Toronto and I won't have to penetrate the Mecca that is Montreal... (although I love this city!!!).

[LowRez]

Cool man, I think it's important to ask around rather than jumping head first into things, every day at work we have little meetings and chats between artists and designers and sometimes programmers about how somethings meant to look, whats the best method, wether it can be done procedurally or wether art controlled is the prefered method, etc etc,

so why should an important decsion in life be any different, I should point out I did a games design course (3 year BA hons) which I tailored to game art with modules in 3d etc. So Im more likly to encourage you to go to school If you can,

I was wondering if your going to be full time or part time, cause like making a portfolio school is best if your working on it full time, of course life isn't always easy though and family/commitments/social life are important too so isn't always possible.

I think Design is a massivly understated thing as all good games have scores of designers, and like you say even if you don't go the design route you may see the games industry a bit more clearly and be more motivated to keep on hammering away at your portfolio *cough* with enviros *cough* Oh and being free to move cities/countries is always good as it broadens your options in your job hunt.. so applying in montreal may be a good idea anyways...

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

Ah, enviros... I plan on it, trust me.

If I do go to school for this, it won't be until next September, at least. The thing about new commitments is I have to stop making them before my current ones have been seen through.

I won't be globally mobile for a while anyhow, so right now is research time.

The beauty of being a freelancer is the freedom, but the downside is having to keep going to a point of stability before taking on a big change.

I figure if I don't get a game job before I take on school again, I will learn much more about the industry through education and my portfolio will essentially become my job, as opposed to going nuts trying to find the time to crank out models and images.

You have been enormously helpful. thanks again, mate.