Unwrella vs Pelt - Normalmap baking test

[speedy / 3d-io]

I saw you guys are publishing some quite decent graphics software tests, I figured I should join the fun - 10-20min Pelting vs 30sec Unwrella auto-unwrap in the Normalmap baking scenario.

The pelt could probably be done a bit better by the artist (to use more texture space), but then it would take more time / introduce more stretch / charts?

The only con (important one, though) of Unwrella is that the seams are arbitrary so you can't paint in Photoshop over the texture, in all other aspects pelting is flat-out stomped on, most drastically in 20x time saving for the artist.

http://www.3d-io.com/gate/unwrella/pelt_vs_unwrella.png

Results can be reproduced with the provided MAX 2009 scene which can be downloaded from: MAX 2009 hi/low poly and textures archive (http://www.3d-io.com/gate/unwrella/head_duel_pelt_vs_unwrella.rar). High poly and low poly models are included, with setup for baking and two normalmap materials, one for Pelt and one for Unwrella.

[MangledPoly]

Nice compare.


However you are still missing a few steps before you claim a 20x time savings.

The Unwrella uv mapping systems makes as you said a very hard map for the artist to paint. The extra 20 minutes it takes to make a nice readable pelt map (more seasoned artists less time). Will be more then made up when the artist needs to tweak and paint diffuse and spec maps.

Also as you said the pelt maps prolly could have been done better by an artist.

This is the reason why I think many people prefer to pelt map.

Just my 2 cents

[speedy / 3d-io]

Yep, agreed.

Unwrella saves significant time only if your work-flow is based on:

* texture baking (render-to-texture)
* 3D texture painting (zbrush / mudbox)
* using procedural materials
* normal-mapping

, or any other methods which don't include 2D texture painting.

Hopefully v2 will improve in that field. :cool:

[Snowfly]

I can see the possibilities but it's kind of a tough sell at the moment. A lot of the samples on your site are deal breakers for character artists. Asymmetrical textures, diagonally aligned UV islands...ick.

Personally I'd like to use Unwrella to generate proxy UV maps while Zbrushing, or generating nice lightmaps in huge batches without loading up 3ds max...Any plans to make a standalone version?

Maybe you can also think about separating the packing process from the unwrapping. A lot of artists are still looking for a solution that does that automatically and effectively.

[speedy / 3d-io]

Yup, as I said, for proxy maps for Zbrush or baking normal maps, Unwrella is the thing to use. As long as you don't need to look in the UVW map and recognise features, it's good to go.

I'm not clear on why would you need a standalone version for? What would be the work-flow? Actually, in-house, we're using a variant of Unwrella for lightmaps, but as a MAX plugin - would that work for you? :)

ps. I'm keeping in mind your thoughts about the editable seams stuff from the other thread - I'll reply to it as soon I have more solid grasp on what is possible and what not...

[mcarr1973]

Hello,

Is it possible to get a version of this for Maya?

I dont use max.

What would really be great is a mac version for Maya!

Im a game creator and know of a lot of Maya users that would really be happy if you can hook us up too.

Sincerely,
Michael

[speedy / 3d-io]

At the moment, Unwrella supports only MAX. Maya ports of our plug-ins (http://www.3d-plugin.com/) are often requested features so my guess is that Maya for Windows support will be available in the following months. I don't think we'll support Maya for Mac anytime soon.

[Yozora]

Or instead of using pelt you could use relax. Cut out the UV pieces, highlight all, relax, done. For a simple object like this that will take roughly 1 minute and the results will be much better than both the results you've shown.

The 20min pelt mapping example is also very poor anyway, I doubt anyone really spends 20mins to make a uv layout like that.

Theres some areas of the unwrella layout that looks very dense, I dont know whether the geometry is like that on the mesh or not but it doesnt look right.

[speedy / 3d-io]

Or instead of using pelt you could use relax. Cut out the UV pieces, highlight all, relax, done. For a simple object like this that will take roughly 1 minute and the results will be much better than both the results you've shown.
The 20min pelt mapping example is also very poor anyway, I doubt anyone really spends 20mins to make a uv layout like that.


Why don't you unwrap it in 1 min and post the .max file back here so that we can check your claims? I'm curious how can you make stretch-free, seams-minimized, well packed unwrapping of much better quality in such a short time period.


Theres some areas of the unwrella layout that looks very dense, I dont know whether the geometry is like that on the mesh or not but it doesnt look right.

That's the whole point of Unwrella, you don't have to guess about this and potentially make mistakes.

Additionally, for texture painting, if you want to set manual seams, we're working on v2: http://www.unwrella.com/2008/11/tutoral-unveil-unwrella/ (http://www.unwrella.com/2008/11/tutoral-unveil-unwrella/) (check the video)

[Yozora]

Ok, I guess your only possible defense is "prove it". Showing you the max file is useless since it doesnt show the time I took to make it, I'll record myself doing it instead;


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/juHNV0RiFUE&hl=en&fs=1&ap=%2526fmt%3D18"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/juHNV0RiFUE&hl=en&fs=1&ap=%2526fmt%3D18" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

or download high quality if you want http://tompoon.com/wip/unwrella/unwrella.avi

Since the mesh is symmetrical I decided to mirror the UVs. I could have done it quicker if I didnt include the time it took to cut it in half and then apply symmetry again. Mine still has plenty of unused space which I could optimize better with more time but the point was to show anyone can do it better than unwrella in roughly 1 min.

Also showing the normal map results isnt the best way to show distortion. I dont even get why you did it that way, you could just apply a simple grid texture like this (arrows point at your distortion, which you can see by the stretched squares);

http://tompoon.com/wip/unwrella/unwrella.jpg


This image is only showing your distortion and not the horrible placement of your seams, which I'm glad to hear you're fixing in v2. 3D Max's relax and Maya's unfold seems to do a better job at removing distortion than this program which you claim is specifically designed to remove distortion for our ease.

I hope this pleases your curiosity.

[speedy / 3d-io]

Very nice work for 1 minute unwrapping. :)

One very important parameter in Unwrella settings can be tweaked, if you want almost completely stretch free mapping. If you pull down stretch factor to 0.02, and set high quality to on, you'll get perfect results for this model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA_4lu9KkSs

Unwrapping with 3 clicks, 0:36 seconds, almost 2x speed increase, 10x-20x number of clicks reduced, for a very simple model, with no perceivable quality difference and no room for mistakes. For complex models, the difference grows exponentially. And the work is boring.

The only drawback is that in v1 you can't set your own seams.

http://www.3d-io.com/gate/unwrella/unwrella_proper_stretch.jpg