Gathering a small team to start a new game project

[mutunake]

Hello everybody,

I am a game programmer (with vast experience), looking for volunteers to join me in starting a new game project. I have already the engine (we will adapt it on the way, of course), so let's get together and come up with a nice idea and do a great game!!!

Come on, guys!!!

PS: I am leaving in Europe, so Europeans are preferable (because of the time difference, of course)

[DreameR]

maybe make it clear what kind of game it is you are planning? :)

[Maph]

Indeed, plus engine specs/screengrabs of what it can do would be nice also. :)

[Shadownami92]

Indeed, maybe a little resume sort of thing to give a more concrete idea of what vast experience is for the programming, but that's a small detail.

More details the better my friend, it sounds interesting. It's just a little hard to gauge skill levels.

[mutunake]

Guys, thanks for replying so fast (I feel you eager to start)!

First of all, I didn’t specify any detail cause the message was intended, in the first phase, just to gather the ones interested in the idea.

Second, the idea and the design of the new game are not definitive. I have now just a global view of the new game, and I wait to plan it in detail together with you all (as many brains in one place as better… plus I’m just a programmer, the inspiration is part of your job, the artists).

Third, the engine is not even close to those state-of-the-art (like Unreal, Crysis, id, etc) but is good enough (I will post screenshots for those of you skeptic, you will be impressed). The engine is complete: 2D and 3D (OpenGL and DirectX), animation, physics, audio, network, AI, scripting, GUI, level editor, FX editor, etc).

The plan I have in mind is the following: as much as we will try to make a “studio” like game, and as talented we would be, we will never get close to that (those studios have millions budget and hundreds manpower). However, what we can do is to come up with a great idea and a great gameplay that will put everything else in shadow (like maybe not amazing effects, or HDR lighting, etc). Therefore, our game should have in my opinion: great idea, great gameplay, great AI and cartoon-like graphics (see “Team Fortress” is 3D or “World of Goo” if 2D).

So, what do you think?

[Aare]

Hi mutunake,

i admire your enthusiasm.

Commercial or free game?

[Kickflipkid687]

You sound like someone I went to college with.....

[mutunake]

Hi mutunake,

i admire your enthusiasm.

Commercial or free game?

even if we will do it just in the spare time, I hope it will look professional... we will decide when it is ready if it is commercial or not

[elte]

Sound interesting!

[Shadownami92]

I always thought it would be nice to see a game that doesn't necessarily have great graphics but smooth and decently fast game play. I'd love to help, but seeing as I myself am on a time crunch and have yet been able to produce anything finished for myself I'd say I'll just watch your project from a perspective view. Good luck though, making your own game engine from the ground up is a pretty nice feat in itself.

[mutunake]

It seems like there are some of you interested and as enthusiasts as I am. So let's start! Those of you interested in joining, please drop me a private message with what are your best skills and what you are willing to do for this project. We will need as many artists as possible (designers - though all of us will contribute to the design of the game, 3D modelers, level editors, texture creators and music artists), but also at least one more programmer (preferable with experience in developing for Wii).

Hope to hear from you soon!

[Snowfly]

so what is your global view of the game?

[PaNthR]

This sounds very interesting as this is something id like to either partake in or start one myself. But its good to have a goal with the project ie how and where are u going to release it?

Have you considered XBLA? Its alot easier to get your stuff out there nowadays, but it has to be something on a smaller scale. Once you get a core audience/following then build "the dream" version of it with full features etc released on the "bigger" platforms

P

[Shadownami92]

This sounds very interesting as this is something id like to either partake in or start one myself. But its good to have a goal with the project ie how and where are u going to release it?

Have you considered XBLA? Its alot easier to get your stuff out there nowadays, but it has to be something on a smaller scale. Once you get a core audience/following then build "the dream" version of it with full features etc released on the "bigger" platforms

P

Well it sounds to me like he already has a game engine programmed and stuff. If its got the features to be a Wii game or whatnot I could see it as a download play game on the Wii or a full game. The game called Da Blob was made by college students and got published, so the idea isn't too out there.

[PaNthR]

Well it sounds to me like he already has a game engine programmed and stuff. If its got the features to be a Wii game or whatnot I could see it as a download play game on the Wii or a full game. The game called Da Blob was made by college students and got published, so the idea isn't too out there.

I wasnt picking at what he has or doesnt have. I was just concerned that there was "no guidance" or "goal" with the project and wanted to raise that issue.

"we will decide when it is ready if it is commercial or not" <-- i think thats what struck me to respond to this thread. As a producer you need to atleast have a goal and timeline when, where and how your are going to reach your target audience. Releasing anything on wii is quite risky for someone that doesnt have a publisher backing and "no name". That is why i suggested XBLA. Im not here to "bag" out anyone, im just merely raising concerns to my fellow members and seeing if they have thought certain things through.

P

[Maph]

If this is to be a game meant for tech like wiiware or XBLA, I'm quite interested in this actually. Those are usually short games (well, wiiware is, don't know about XBLA), and you can get very creative with those (cf. Lost Winds for wiiware). :approve:
Going straight for a full game will require some really original concept if you don't want to see it fail imho.

mutunake: Are you by any chance an official nintendo(wii)-licensed dev? And like PaNthR said, it would be great to hear your thoughts on the game's final goal and release dates/locations. A basic dev/art roadmap would be nice too. :p

[mutunake]

Maph & PaNthR: I have also a question for you: how many volunteer game projects have you organized until now? My guess is none. For me it is the first one, but I see already discordances in your questions: how can you ask for what platform the game it will be released or in what day it will be ready when the team working on it is not even defined yet nor the idea of the games is not fixed yet???

If any of you wants to participate, I can demand how many hours per day you will be spending for this project. Until than, your commentaries are irrelevant.

[aquamango]

Maph & PaNthR: I have also a question for you: how many volunteer game projects have you organized until now? My guess is none. For me it is the first one, but I see already discordances in your questions: how can you ask for what platform the game it will be released or in what day it will be ready when the team working on it is not even defined yet nor the idea of the games is not fixed yet???

If any of you wants to participate, I can demand how many hours per day you will be spending for this project. Until than, your commentaries are irrelevant.

Mutunake, going by your clearly patronizing comment above towards Maph & PaNthR, and speaking as an industry professional with 5 Wii titles under my belt, you're already failing.

Wii and Xbox are 2 different beasts, with 2 different audiences, control systems, graphic capabilities.... list goes on.......

And if you're not an authorized Nintendo developer - well... good luck to you.

Your response to these people was rude. I wouldn't get involved with you if you were the greatest programmer on earth.

Hack.

[PaNthR]

Maph & PaNthR: I have also a question for you: how many volunteer game projects have you organized until now? My guess is none.

ehhh wrong.... i said im a producer :D i manage projects for a living.....


For me it is the first one, but I see already discordances in your questions: how can you ask for what platform the game it will be released or in what day it will be ready when the team working on it is not even defined yet nor the idea of the games is not fixed yet???



Easy - In your game design.... You should state what platform you aim to make the game for. This also allows you to budget the game etc... i could go on....

you need a timeline or else you will be redesigning everything for the next 5 years and not get anywhere with development... bad for morale etc....i could go on again....


If any of you wants to participate, I can demand how many hours per day you will be spending for this project. Until than, your commentaries are irrelevant.

You posted on a public forum, i am merely posting to HELP... but if you believe that my comments and others are irrelevant then you have taken a step in the bad direction already.

Best of luck with your game :D

P

[mutunake]

Easy - In your game design.... You should state what platform you aim to make the game for. This also allows you to budget the game etc... i could go on....


Guys, you still don't get the most important thing about this project: the game itself is not defined yet, I want to do this together with my team (discussing first of all the idea of the game and for what platform is it most suitable, etc).

Thx for the good luck, everybody needs it I guess!

[Maph]

Maph & PaNthR: I have also a question for you: how many volunteer game projects have you organized until now? My guess is none. For me it is the first one, but I see already discordances in your questions: how can you ask for what platform the game it will be released or in what day it will be ready when the team working on it is not even defined yet nor the idea of the games is not fixed yet???

If any of you wants to participate, I can demand how many hours per day you will be spending for this project. Until than, your commentaries are irrelevant.

No need to act in such an insulting and patronizing manner. My questions are valid, and I've got every right to ask them!
If you propose a vague request on a public forum to assemble a team for an indie/volunteer game project without any preperations, you can bloody well expect people to ask you what your plans with the game are.
You have every right to reject or ignore my questions, and I respect that. But responding like this really isn't selling your case. :yawn:

You can't honestly expect to be able to gather a capable team for a game of any form of professional level without some kind of general guideline imho.

Anyway, all the best for your game though.

[Japhir]

yeah, that was just a cocky attitude.
they both asked valid questions that, if answered in a way that i liked would have caused me to participate. to say that they don't have any experience and therefore their question is stupid is... really dumb.
i'm not gonna do this, good luck.

[Ged]

There are plenty of projects with good ideas and vision to take part in on websites like moddb or even sourceforge. To ask people to join a game team with no solid idea for a game is like asking people to start a business with you without you knowing what the business will be doing.

[LowRez]

Guys, you still don't get the most important thing about this project: the game itself is not defined yet, I want to do this together with my team (discussing first of all the idea of the game and for what platform is it most suitable, etc).

Thx for the good luck, everybody needs it I guess!

Maybe you should have a short design to base your project off... From experience, asking everyone what they want to do creates a shocking project that isn't focused and not everyone will be happy with.

You need leadership and a starting point, create a base design and a starting point then you bring the team on board to contribute to the design once the key features are identified, The phrase "too many cooks spoil the broth" is as relevant to almost all professions.

If your aiming to create a game, something that requires alot of man hours of work, you need that start point to keep people motivated and give them direction. I worked on some mods which we're badly run in the past and they never get anywhere near completion because ideas change so rapidly and people who are working for free get bored quicky with the uncertainty of the project.

So my key advice is outline what "you" want to do with a brief document and platform etc, and then get people on board who can add to that design and morph it into a game. Having a free for all design stage is fine if you have a paid team, who are paid to work on whatever your working on and wher eventually the leads and producer will create a solid design document, but for most mods or hobby games, it's best to have a leader who starts the ball rolling.

[mutunake]

Maybe you should have a short design to base your project off... From experience, asking everyone what they want to do creates a shocking project that isn't focused and not everyone will be happy with.

You need leadership and a starting point, create a base design and a starting point then you bring the team on board to contribute to the design once the key features are identified, The phrase "too many cooks spoil the broth" is as relevant to almost all professions.

If your aiming to create a game, something that requires alot of man hours of work, you need that start point to keep people motivated and give them direction. I worked on some mods which we're badly run in the past and they never get anywhere near completion because ideas change so rapidly and people who are working for free get bored quicky with the uncertainty of the project.

So my key advice is outline what "you" want to do with a brief document and platform etc, and then get people on board who can add to that design and morph it into a game. Having a free for all design stage is fine if you have a paid team, who are paid to work on whatever your working on and wher eventually the leads and producer will create a solid design document, but for most mods or hobby games, it's best to have a leader who starts the ball rolling.

Thx for this advice, you are the first one that made a really constructive contribution.

And you are totally right: some leadership is mandatory, otherwise there will be just a pool of ideas that do not connect to each other and that will never lead to an end.

However, as the project is just starting, I find that letting everybody contributing to the game design is a good idea. This is intended only for the beginning of the project. Once the team comes up with an idea and a schedule that suits (more or less) everybody, a document describing the project will fix the ideas in place, and only the team members responsible with the design of the game will be allowed to change it (but never radically).

Thanks again!

PS: For those of you that find aggressive or arrogant my first reply today: this was not the intention. However, I was angry because some of you reply without reading carefully the comments. Next, I will just totally ignore all irrelevant comments.

[Yozora]

So where are those screenshots of the engine you spoke of? Not that it really matters now for most of us here since you blew it when you showed your ignorance and arrogance.

[DreameR]

i dont even know why i bothered to return to this thread...

[Shadownami92]

Thx for this advice, you are the first one that made a really constructive contribution.

And you are totally right: some leadership is mandatory, otherwise there will be just a pool of ideas that do not connect to each other and that will never lead to an end.

However, as the project is just starting, I find that letting everybody contributing to the game design is a good idea. This is intended only for the beginning of the project. Once the team comes up with an idea and a schedule that suits (more or less) everybody, a document describing the project will fix the ideas in place, and only the team members responsible with the design of the game will be allowed to change it (but never radically).

Thanks again!

PS: For those of you that find aggressive or arrogant my first reply today: this was not the intention. However, I was angry because some of you reply without reading carefully the comments. Next, I will just totally ignore all irrelevant comments.

I think that most of the comments here were constructive before things got a little ot of hand.

Look there are a few things you may want to consider when being a game developer, especially one who is asking for help. As the leader of your project you have to show leadership. And as the leader of project you should be a little more professional when asking for help.

Everyone here can easily choose to help you or not. But if you expect to get help anywhere I think you need to sell your product a little better. When I say product I mean your project and you. If I decided to work on a project I would prefer to work on a project with more groundwork on the type of game and I would prefer to work with someone who can take advice and contructive criticism to heart rather than be defensive for an otherwise hollow reason.

I've seen many people say that they want to make a game and need help and say that they won't make a game idea known until getting input by people who want to join. However when that happens you may get artists who specialize in different parts of 3d modeling and work better in different genres. It's better to have a general idea of what you want in the game so specific 3d artists can be drawn to it so the working process will flow better.

If an artist joins a group thinking they will enjoy modeling assets but the majority chooses a game genre and style that the artist doesn't like than they will be turned off from working hard or even caring about the project.

Mind you, indie games like this work a little different than professional game studio games, since it's not techniqually a real studio job the pressure to work is a lot less than that if you are working for a company. Mainly because the difference in pay and the mindset when working on it is different.

What you may want to work on is taking advice, keeping your head cool and trying to compose yourself to become someone who can lead a development tgroup team who will want to work with you. With time you learn, just keep everything in this thread in mind, take it all in and think it through a few times over. I may not be a proffessional 3D artist as of now but you should understand many people on this forum are out there working in the industry now. Take their advice, why learn from only your mistake when you can learn from the mistake of others and how the overcame those mistakes? Lifes to short just to learn from your own experience.

[ReplicA]

Gotta agree with everyone else here. I've done a few mods/indie projects, paid and free, and while most of the people I've worked with were awesome, there have been a few that made the project unbearable to work on. Attitudes like yours, mutunake, can ruin entire projects. People come on, then leave cause they don't need vague ideas, and condescending comments thrown at them when trying to work, let alone work for free.

People want to work on projects that are fun, in an environment that's friendly, with a clear idea of what they're doing. They don't want to work where they're insulted, ignored, not taken seriously, with no direction, etc.

And after your comments towards people who were trying to help you, then trying to look cool by saying "Next, I will just totally ignore all irrelevant comments" and there by proving your ignorance, not only do I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone willing to work with you for free, and for any reasonable amount of time, I highly doubt your project will go anywhere. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Cold]

Oh dear... mutunake.

I don't mind following or heading into something I know little of, AS LONG as I trust the guy in charge, the man that takes the shit when something goes wrong, also the one that I trust to be able to fix it. The one who makes the best decision for the team's goal.

Now the problem I have already, you come to us with no concrete idea, no plan of attack, basically nothing. The only thing you do offer is letting us decide the game for you, which in my experience ends in drama, because the thing I can see happening is, as soon something doesn't go well, you won't be there to take the blame no one will. All I see is you saying "I am not the designer here" and everyone else dissapearing into thin air.

I like to follow a leader, I like to know what I am suposed to be doing. Give me purpose!

My advice, go design a game first from start to finish, then from that you can see what you need and who what for. DIng!

[aquamango]

Thx for this advice, you are the first one that made a really constructive contribution.

Wow - more arrogance. From my professional perspective, all queries prior to WERE constructive and standard quesions.

And you are totally right: some leadership is mandatory, otherwise there will be just a pool of ideas that do not connect to each other and that will never lead to an end.

That's what the others said.

However, as the project is just starting, I find that letting everybody contributing to the game design is a good idea. This is intended only for the beginning of the project. Once the team comes up with an idea and a schedule that suits (more or less) everybody, a document describing the project will fix the ideas in place, and only the team members responsible with the design of the game will be allowed to change it (but never radically).

So you really have no idea and you're feeding off other people to give you that idea that you will then take and run with... Because of prior conversations, I don't trust you.


...some of you reply without reading carefully the comments. Next, I will just totally ignore all irrelevant comments.
Maybe you should take your own advice. And to ignore comments (no matter if YOU think they're irrelevant) only yet again displays your arrogance.

Put simply, I'd NEVER put someone like you on one of my dev teams. You're a Hack.:lol: :thumb: :paper: :brick:

[mr_ace]

lol, don't mess with game artists i think is the moral of this story! But seriously, asking questions about specifications of the engine/what platform it's aimed at are pretty essential, as if ur engine supports/ doesn't support tools or techniques outside of peoples skillsets, theyre not going to be able to work on ur project, for example, if ur engine doesnt support normal maps, then anyone who's skillsets purely in next-gen asset creation might struggle a bit, so it's pretty important to outline some soecifications of the engine.

i personally don't have any experience in the industry as of yet, but i must say i doubt ur 'vast' experience, as i really can't see someone with ur attitude getting too far in the games industry, and certainly not in a leadership role. good luck anyway, i think ur gunna need it

[Deto]

<snip>...but i must say i doubt ur 'vast' experience, as i really can't see someone with ur attitude getting too far in the games industry, and certainly not in a leadership role... <sinip>

I must say. While it sounds like bad attitude isn't welcome, it isn't entirely so. I know alot of people who I'd rather spank than let work on any projects, but yet they work more or less high up in game studios. I won't say names, cause I would be stabbed and brutally murdered afterwards... which I don't want :think:

But leadership, yeah. Bad attitude don't go there, especially not in gamecareer where you have more or less personal touch with your group(s).

If he is genius, then I don't see anything stopping him from having 'vast experience'.

But on "topic". I'd like to see some show of what he can do or can't do or what the engine can do. And yeah I agree, he should lay out proper design for the game first. I don't mean proper sit down with crazy brainactivity wouldn't bring out nice idea for game. That's what alot of designers do. But it don't work really well with group of people who have no idea about each other.

...especially not in the internet... :paper:

...I mean best ideas are born in bars, toilets, unreal tournament deathmatch sessions, lan parties.. ...We even had a word for it. 'Toilet vision'. That's because of our ex-teacher at school I was before who used to use 'forest vision' as example for everything. It had something to do with forests, no matter what, I remember photos from forests... :think:

[boxfox]

One of the best lessons I learned in school was that having too many people with a voice on a team can lead to a game concept going backward, not forward. You had a nice idea in the beginning on wanting to design a game with your team, and while that might work sometimes, it's been my experience that the best route to go is to come up with a very complete and very specific design document for your concept and then go from there. You need quite a bit set in stone before you let too many team members see it or they're all going to want a say in the matter and your game will end up with no focus at all, like several others have mentioned.

I really loved your enthusiasm when I started reading this thread. Hope you can sink your teeth into this feedback and the rest and try again with the same vigor!

[XaKu]

Seeing as you dont have a game idea yet and this is your first attempt at creating a game id suggest you quit now my friend. You obviously dont have the skills to be leading a group of people.. I recommend you go onto modb and find a well established mod that are looking for a programmer. Once you are comfortable working in a team and seeing how a game is brought together, then you can think about creating your own title in the future :D - GoodLuck heh

[mutunake]

Most of your comments contain the same idea: no game design document = no game. As most of you believe this, I must say I started this thread too early. Before this thread I should had begun a thread aiming to bring together few game designers, together with whom to come up with a nice idea and settle it in a design document. Only after this is done, to write this thread looking for artists, as apparently none of you are willing to participate in the design of the game.

But before I end this thread, I'd like to clarify another aspect. I didn't write this thread asking for 'help', but just to serve as a meeting point for all of you wanting to create a game, job that can not be done alone. Therefore, by meeting here, we would have helped each other starting a project that none of us could have done alone. Don't get me wrong again, I found a lot of interesting things in your comments that for sure will help me next (and I would like to thank you for this), but not this was the intention of this thread.

Thanks all of you for your time!

[Ged]

You seem to think that a good idea for a game is something that a whole team of designers would have to work hard on. I dont necessarily think this is true, I think every one of the people who have responded here probably have many good ideas. That is the problem here, not the fact there is no good ideas but the fact that there are too many good ideas. Thats why people need direction. I think 1 individual with a good starting idea is probably all thats needed and then as the project is designed more people might come on board. Thats my theory on this anyway. So you could probably go off on your own and work away at designing a great idea for a game with some specifics and then see if people want to add to the game concept or become part of an art/programming team