Is it me or did Obama hop out of a delorean?

[zeke3d]

This man is amazing, its like he is from the future sent here to steer humanity in a brave new direction. When he quoted Kennedy " Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." I just was at a loss for words. I think he can inspire us to be better at what we do. :thumb:

[cookepuss]

Although I think that he may well be what the country needs at this time, I don't always agree with him. It's not because I'm a Republican, which I am. It's because I think that his idealism might well be his downfall. Y'know the old saying about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

At the same time, I tend not to trust politicians in general. They all talk a lot of smack. They all lie. They all break their promises. They all somehow put the screws to the people they serve. It's just what they do.

At the end of the day, the US government is much, much bigger than any single president. Obama, like those before him, is not the final word in anything. He's a cog in a bigger machine. The gov existed before him and will do so after him.

To assure that, he will have to break promises, make back room deals, and sell just a little bit of this soul. The same would have been said had McCain become pres.

No president can keep every campaign promise. If they just keep 25% then they're golden.

Politics is a highly complex and polarizing issue. That's why I tend to discussing avoid it. I would no sooner engage in a deep and lasting discussion about politics than I would one about faith. I've got my own opinions, being an atheist, but that's my thing. I won't impose my beliefs on anybody else. Same with politics. I'm not gonna push an agenda.

On that note, tread lightly with this thread. We Repubs/Dems/Greens/Martians are an evil, nasty, and cu-razy lot. ;) LOL No need for a war, right? (We USers have already got 2 of those anyway.)

[zeke3d]

well, I guess all I can say is, he inspires me

[Blenderhead]

I thought there was going to be a link to a video of him actually climbing out of a delorean. :(

[seven]

I thought there was going to be a link to a video of him actually climbing out of a delorean. :(

I'm with you man :\

[MRico]

zeke3d: I have to agree with you man. He is an awesome speaker and does pump you up. He definitely is inspirational...don't know how the fuck he's going to fix everything but, ehh...he's a good speaker lol.

[poopinmymouth]

It's too bad about his choice of Daschle for healthcare reform. He's a lobbyist hack if ever there was one. And Obama is not sorry he picked a healthcare industry slut, he's sorry that he picked someone with a dirty tax record. The US needs a champion for real healthcare reform, not someone who's been paid millions by the current healthcare industry.

In fact, I think the choice was so bad, I've lost all faith in Obama based on his campaign, and will be withholding judgment till I see something real actually accomplished.

His wishy-washy attitude about the legality of weed (not even a smoker myself, just someone who knows the war on drugs is the worst policy the US has) same-sex marriage, and his toothless salary cap on executives is also worrying.

He's obviously better choice than McCain, but he's showing himself to be quite spineless so far in my opinion.

[cookepuss]

He's obviously better choice than McCain,
McCain might have made a decent president a decade ago. This time around, he just came off like a senile & creepy old man who incessantly harps on his war record & curiously chooses a running mate with the IQ of Play-Doh.

I'm a registered Republican of 17 years. For me to admit that he was just waaaaay wrong for the job is big for me.

The way I see it, the Repubs had their 8 years. Bush, regardless of what you think of him as a person, got saddled with this whole 9/11 mess early on and that defined his whole tenure. Being a new president, he made some big mistakes. Everything after that..... It's like watching your Dad try to fix the lawnmower. He honestly means well, but everything he fixes creates a new problem and every new problem he fixes ensures that pieces will be left over at the end.

Obama, quite literally, was in the right place at the right time. I'm sure that he's a smart guy, but pretty much anybody who wasn't associated with Bush was bound to win. A president with a 20-something percent approval rating doesn't leave office on good terms. That's not a political statement. It's just an observation.

Again, I'm sure Obama has the best of intentions, but the Hamburgler could've won the election against anybody in the GOP. That's why McCain tried so hard to distance himself from Bush as a *ick* "maverick". (I hate that term.)

but he's showing himself to be quite spineless so far in my opinion.
I'm not going to go that far. However, I will say that he's probably finding out that the job is much bigger and more complex than he ever expected. There's a reason why the job of PotUS ages you 2x as much as any other job. It's hard. Obama's probably realizing that he can't carry through with even a fraction of what he promised by now. A republican president would've had it just as bad.

This, imo, is the problem with him being having had as little Washington experience as he did. He had a lot of idealism to be sure, but he hadn't been around to block enough for certain ugly, inescapable truths about politics to temper that idealism. Now, he's finding out the hard way. It's the type of job that you learn as you go along.


ANYWAY..... I hate politics. I really do. It doesn't matter who you vote for really. The candidates become so interchangeable after the campaigns and rhetoric end. Republican. Democratic. Independent. They're all "the man" and are just there to keep the machine running.



BTW, Please keep the discussion civil. Political debate gets dirty quickly. I, or one of the other mods, will close this thread if it gets out of hand.

[Ace-Angel]

Well, in all regards, Bush did wipe out 8 years of idealism along with the Republican party. McCain might have had a chance, or at least, not lose by such a huge gap.

Obama might not be "The One" but he still is a breathe of fresh air in some regards. Sure, politicians tend to screw things once they see they have to in order to get things running, but we have yet to see things from him (bad or good).

Also, it doesn't help the state that the US is currently in a complex state to say the least. Lets face it, if Obama is able to deliver half of what he promised in 4 years, I tip my hat.

[cookepuss]

Well, in all regards, Bush did wipe out 8 years of idealism along with the Republican party.
Nah. Idealism has no place in Washington.

Just take the last Democratic administration. Clinton's "little blue dress", "oral office" impeachment scandal didn't help the case for idealism. Then there was his (mis)handling of the original 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the Whitewater scandal, Vince Foster, his virtual renting of the Lincoln bedroom, the botched case for healthcare reform, and so forth.

Bush Sr.? "No New Taxes." Nuff said there. He can be commended for his & Stormin' Norman's super precise Gulf War 1 strategy, but not for the lack of decisive conclusion.

Reagan? My favorite president (in my lifetime). However, even his administration siphoned off every ounce of idealism in Washington. The Iran Contra scandal. Endless argument & debate over the Strategic Defense Initiative. Voodoo Economics & trickle down.

Jimmy Carter, the indecisive do nothing president who was better known for the greatness he achieved after leaving office.

Ford, a placeholder president if ever there was one, forgettable in every way.

Nixon.... C'mon. The guy's name is synonymous with political scandal. Everything is somethinggate because if his slash&burn sneaky politics.

Even JFK talked a much better game than he played. Given a full term, his handling of Cuban-American affairs would've boiled over much, much quicker. Plus, his notorious womanizing would've only gotten worse. Kennedys aren't exactly known for being scandal free.

Dig deeper and go even further and you have politicians with unconfirmed ties to organized crime and such.

Like I said, Idealism.... No place for it in Washington.

Idealism in politics is the stuff you stick on bumper stickers or campaign buttons. The thick & real of it is that the more things change the more they stay the same. Obama's stimulus package and the one that preceded it is no different in concept than the bail out of the Great Depression, which itself did not work, iirc.

History is cyclical. If you think that politics and government sucked these past 8 years, well, they probably sucked as hard many, many times in the past. Change comes in small doses and not in any single administration. Most lasting changes can usually be attributed to efforts that span multiple presidencies.

Every administration is mired in scandal at one point or another. Obama just started. Wait for it all to hit the fan. His turn will come. It's a right of passage.

Oy.... Politics give Cooke headache. :p

[coldkodiak]

Again, I'm sure Obama has the best of intentions, but the Hamburgler could've won the election against anybody in the GOP. That's why McCain tried so hard to distance himself form Bush as a *ick* "maverick". (I hate that term.)

Consider it from a another perspective. He beat Hillary.

Beating McCain wasn't the surprise. It was watching an outsider beat everyone else so thoroughly. That's something impressive, and invigorating for those incredibly cynical about the current state of politics.

[cookepuss]

Consider it from a another perspective. He beat Hillary.
I don't know how much of a surprise it was, at least to me. I always thought that it could go either way.

Hillary came out swinging and had a decisive lead. However, she got lazy and overconfident, aggressive even. Plus, having Bill in your corner is as much a liability as it is an asset. He brings a lot of baggage to the situation, regardless of it being his wife who was on the campaign trail. Look at her recent vetting process as an example of that.

Furthermore, there's the whole double standard regarding strong women VS strong men. A strong man is called "assertive" while a strong woman is called a b***h. Definitely not a fair assertion to make, but it's a label that got hung on her quite a bit. As racist as this country can be, I think that the line drawn by sexism is no less prevalent. It might even be stronger in the grand scheme, although that's debatable.

Obama was highly marketable as a celebrity personality. Just look at Saturday Night Live. He's often portrayed as being even keeled, suave, and charismatic. That's a stark contrast to their portrayal of Hillary. To the comedians, she was bossy, over confident, and just a tad loony.

I'm not saying that the media bought Obama the election. Not at all. It was a perfect storm of events that led to that. However, I do think that how his image was developed on TV, newspapers, and the internet was far and a way different than Hillary's. He was quite literally marketed to a young generation, especially with the way he embraced digital media as part of his campaign strategy. He was marketed to a generation that didn't have any pre-conceived attachment to either the Clinton or Bush administrations. He was quite literally something new.

It also didn't hurt that he echoed Lincoln & JFK along the way. It didn't hurt that bringing change also meant making history. Just electing him to the office sent a message of historic change to the older generations and previous administrations.

Americans also like underdogs. It's the "Rocky" principle. In every way, Obama screamed underdog. From his life story to his fight along the campaign trail to the "race card", as it relates to US politics.

It also didn't hurt his chances that he more often fought the rants of Hillary and McCain with dignity instead of equally furious counter-rants.

Hillary's whole thing about "who will be there at 3am" (whatever) strategy backfired. McCain's attempt to connect him to terrorism was just lame. Both strategies seemed desperate.

Hillary & McCain's undoing was actually themselves. Same thing happened with Rudy Gulliani. His notion of campaign strategy was nothing short of imbecilic. I liked the guy. The best mayor that NYC has had in decades. However, he bungled his own chances too.

As I said, Obama came into power due to a perfect storm of circumstances. It wasn't skill or idealism alone. It wasn't the Bush administration alone. It wasn't even the relative incompetence of his competition alone. Not one of those things alone could have won him the PotUS. It all came together perfectly.

Now let's see if he's up to the task.

This economic crisis, which conveniently deflects from the war sitch, is a huge test. If he can pass it, 4 more years. If not, he's yet another placeholder president.

Then again, Bush messed up his 1st 4 years and we still re-elected him. :p

[mr_ace]

i wud say anyone is a step up from bush, and i think from what i've seen of obama, he certainly seems like a fresh new direction, and he seems to be realistic with his goals.

But i'm not going to pretend i know anything about US politics

[Shadownami92]

i wud say anyone is a step up from bush, and i think from what i've seen of obama, he certainly seems like a fresh new direction, and he seems to be realistic with his goals.

But i'm not going to pretend i know anything about US politics

I'd say that's debatable. I think lots of people just hate Bush because everyone else does. Not to mention he was put in a pretty tight spot as a new president with the whole 911 thing. I don't know about you but I'm quite sure there were other people looking to run for president that would have made worse decisions in that point in time during those events. After that and having a whole country start to hate you I could see how doing anything good would even be looked at by anyone.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of Bush, but I'm not a fan of politics or bandwagons either. I don't think Obama has been president long enough for people to see him as such a great leader. You never know what he might do when put under the same pressures or other new problems America and the world will face.

All I can say is people shouldn't get their hopes up too high until he does what he says. It's a lot easier to say something and keep cool and composed than be in the heat of things and keep cool and composed.

[cookepuss]

I think lots of people just hate Bush because everyone else does.
QFA. He's made some big mistakes to be sure, but people have gotten carried away with the Bush hating.

Not to mention he was put in a pretty tight spot as a new president with the whole 911 thing.
Yeah. Y'know, I really do feel bad for the guy. He's going to go down in history with a bad rap that's not completely of his own making. Sadly, he may even go down as our worst president ever. Hopefully, the history books will be a little more even tempered than the general population or mass media.

He was president for close to 7.5 months and then 9/11 happened. Nobody can be prepared for that. We've always known about terror in the skies and bombings overseas. Nobody ever thought it could happen on home soil. Well... That's not quite true.

After the 1st World Trade Center bombing, you'd have thought that the Clinton administration would have taken greater steps toward securing the country from terror on the home field. It just didn't happen.

Things spiraled out of control quickly after that. Let's also not forget that his first few months in office were under a dark cloud caused by the Bush/Gore election problems. He didn't exactly start off his 8 years on the right foot.

No amount of work experience can teach you how to be a world leader. You learn as you go along. With something like 9/11, you're in way over your head no matter who you are. Even worse, you're overwhelmed overnight, literally. Mistakes are inevitable. Unfortunately, in a situation like that, those same mistakes are costly. They'll follow you forever too.

People get upset at Bush saying that he started a war in Iraq over oil or maybe to finish something that his father started, a personal vendetta of sorts. The Bush administration now conveniently uses the "bad intelligence" excuse. I think that anybody who followed the situation on a daily basis can figure out what probably happened.

The US government got intelligence info about WMDs in Iraq, right? I'm sure that the info was actually very valid. HOWEVER, the UN had to get involved with their inspection team. The UN inspectors spent so much time tying everything and everyone in bureaucracy. So much red tape, in fact, that by the time any inspections were allowed & done all anybody could find was trace residue and nothing more. No WMDs. That left Bush and his crew with egg on their faces.

The likely answer is that the WMDs did indeed exist, but enough time passed that most of the incriminating evidence got moved out of the country. Iraq does have allies after all. Unfortunately, nobody could ever confirm that theory. Bush & Co's rep got damaged big time.

Now, with troops stuck there and in the middle of a situation where immediate withdrawal didn't serve either party, Iraq or the US, the Bush administration found itself stuck in a very big mess. A mess, might I add, which didn't get any better as time went on.

If anything, the removal of Saddam's dictatorship might have helped to a degree, but it also created a situation that will probably be unstable for many years after the US finally pulls its troops out. It's a situation that can only be likened to the Vietnam withdrawal. For whatever reason, good or bad, you're there. Pulling troops out or staying in for even longer won't change the fact that what's done is done. The wounds will take years to heal. Stability won't come overnight, foreign intervention or not.

As Americans, I don't think that we can full appreciate what's going on. Unless you've been there or have family member in the military, there's stuff about this or any war that you can't grasp. It doesn't help that the general American citizen is shielded from the full extent of what's going on.

I'm not just talking about the stuff that's hush hush for national security reasons. I'm not even talking about the fact that the Bush administration blocked media access to coffins of soldiers being returned to the states. I'm talking about the media at large, which does a lot of agenda based spin. There's a lot of propaganda out there - not serving just the government, but also the media outlets.

A lot of the news we get here is highly filtered, whether USers want to believe that or not. I'm not sure how much people outside of the US know the situations with the war. Probably more than the average US citizen I'd wager though.

Back on point.... The situation with anti-Bush sentiment is something that might never have happened without 9/11. Everything's connected. All it takes is for one person to tug at a thread for the whole tapestry to fall apart. That's what happened.

I'm not going to excuse a lot of the bone headed Bushisms over the years. He did mess up on a lot of things. I don't fully believe that all of this hate is warranted though. In some ways, he's a victim of his circumstances. The man was a player, but he was also played.

I don't even think that the economy is solely the fault of the Bush administration either. If that had been the case, we'd be the only or one of the only countries in an economic recession. The fact is, there's a global recession that was precipitated by bad decision making or trends in every affected country over the past 20 years.

Just because economic times were good in the 90s doesn't mean that no mistakes were made. Small one were indeed made, real estate & stock speculation for example. However, the effects weren't immediate. Chaos Theory 101. The Butterfly Effect. Governments and companies flapped their wings in the 90s, causing an economic tsunami in the 00s.

[zeke3d]

I don't really judge a president based on his choices alone, I base them on what the forefathers who by great foresight or divine inspiration created the almost perfect doctrine the constitution, which gives the us its most perfect mechanism for greatness, which I believe drives all artists, self criticism and plain and simple rights granted to all human beings who choose to call themselves Americans. As for bush, I am not a fan of his. Growing up in Texas I know the kind of blind, old money politics that ran the state at the time and people out outside of the that status wished to associate themselves with and be a part of. The constitution is a beautiful thing though. Those who do not believe in it should leave the country.

[cookepuss]

That's a little harsh, but I get what you mean. The constitution is basically just a social contract though.

eg. "These are your duties to your country. These are your countries duties to you."

The document isn't perfect and is certainly a product of the 18th century. There are a lot of things that it could have never predicted 230+ years ago in terms of technology, bioethics, & human rights. Even with all of the amendments, the constitution is hardly all inclusive. The body that makes the judgment calls for those gray areas (ie. the supreme court) is itself flawed and imprecise, being open at times to both partisan politics and personal biases.

With all things being even and ideal, the government and the people themselves have historically had a way of finding clever little loopholes in this social contract.

I'm a fairly big fan of the late George Carlin. In his final comedy special, "It's Bad for Ya'," he rather accurately (imo) reclassifies the "Bill of Rights" as the "Bill of Temporary Privileges." If you think about it, he has a good point.

Historically, the government has a habit of cleverly suspending these rights and granting new one where none had previously existed. This is especially true during times of war. The internment of Japanese American citizens during WW2. The blanket use of executive privilege or national security citation, which Nixon beat to death in the 1970s. The circumvention of due process and civil liberties in this war, especially as it applies to Gitmo. How about McCarthyism or blacklisting?

If we're being honest here, all facades aside, the idea of constitutionality is a superficiality at best. We live in a world which, in many ways, far exceeds the unconstitutionality exhibited in Orwell's 1984. Big Brother was nothing compared to what's here and now in post-9/11 USA. There's a lot of very scary violations of the constitution going on everyday and we willingly/quietly give up these rights in the name of "the greater good." We tolerate it because we're fat, rich, & happy. The moment that changes...

You can't take or give away rights. Privileges you can. It seems to be a trivial distinction at first, but it is makes all the difference in the end. Not trying to sound anti-American, but it's a scary time for the country. It's an even scarier time for the Constitution.

Ever notice how the 1st amendment of free speech is generally protected when it's convenient? How many watch lists can you find yourself on by writing the "wrong" thing? What about the 2nd amendment right to bear arms? Try legally stockpiling arms only to find yourself on the 10pm news.

Can you imagine doing to the US government what the revolutionaries did to the Brits in the 18th century? Even if you're in the right, watch how quickly your "rights" get suspended and you're branded a terrorist. The only thing worse than a governing body with too much power is one afraid of losing it.

If you think about it, the enforcement, interpretation, and dissemination of the information in the constitution has changed over the years. The Constitution isn't a small document anymore. It isn't just these handful of rights. It's a complex beast that is constantly interpreted and reinterpreted by countless lawyers, judges, & law students everywhere. What's true and faithful to the spirit of the document today is lawlessness tomorrow.

Sneaky law types. ;)

I love this country and the constitution. They are both works of art, imo. However, they're still WIPs. Our country is still in the toddler stage. Old enough to walk all on our own, but not old enough to do so without stumbling and breaking stuff now & then.

[coldkodiak]

Obama was highly marketable as a celebrity personality. Just look at Saturday Night Live. He's often portrayed as being even keeled, suave, and charismatic. That's a stark contrast to their portrayal of Hillary. To the comedians, she was bossy, over confident, and just a tad loony.

Sorry to cherry pick a topic here, you provide many! ;) , but I just wanted to add that I feel a lot of politicians have a honed sense of image they want to project.

I never did buy the whole cowboy thing with Bush, and learning that he just sold his ranch in crawford just reminded that some people are very cynical with their image.

If the media loves Obama, you might want to consider that Obama wants the media to love him, and has quite literally built himself around that social mechanic quite shrewdly.

These people who actually become president aren't to be trusted :o

[Jono-GHOSTWORKS]

you guys are actually talking politics.. and I haven't seen anyone model Obama hopping out of a Delorean yet....

Hmmm...

[zeke3d]

this is not a wip thread, it was me wanting to share how inspiring Obama was for me, its under general discussion so here we can talk about any topic we please, we are more than game art robots.

[cookepuss]

D03s n0t c0mput3.

[zeke3d]

quick, somebody hit the manual shutdown button!!! :P