Demo Reels vs Online portfolio sites.

[Twindragon]

I was just wanting to get peoples opinions on what they believe to be better to get jobs and to showcase work. Demo reels or online portfolios that show only static images.

When I was at school demo reels were the norm but since my last demo reel I sent my reel to a friend that is a senior level designer and he told me to forget the rotating models on a base just stick with nice images on a website.

I want to hear your thoughts on this. It might push ppl in the right direction and save time on editing demo reels etc and help someone get a job in the long run.

[Gavin]

Hey man,

I think demo reels are a total waste of time. The risk of having a poorly edited reel and the time it takes to actually make a decent one isn't worth it, in my opinion. It's different with animators because motion is a factor...but for artist positions, i think a standard portfolio is much stronger. Make it easy to remember, easily accessible and limited to only your best work. It's easier to pass around and has a lot less risks (regarding being lost, wrong codecs, etc.)

Plus, in a lot of schools, they push you to make this final, all encompassing demo reel for your final...to tie in the bullshit things you learn in their course like video editing and storyboarding. I think that's a total waste and is why I dropped out of school. Why waste my time making a VERY sub par reel that shows disciplines i'm not even interested in when I could take that time to work harder on my chosen path?

I've never had a game art reel, I made a few stupid ones and one I just threw together...but it is my online portfolio that has ALWAYS gotten bites for the multiple jobs an multiple clients I've had.

I just don't think people have time for demo reels any more, nor should they, times have changed and a simple portfolio is much easier to look at.

[coldkodiak]

Yeah, agree with Gavin.

Demo reels are for people that really need to show their work in motion.

Pics are faster, and give you a better overall idea of your work quicker.

That said, if you have a really kick ass model, and you know it, making a quick turn around video aint bad.

[DeAtH_SmiLeS]

Wow. Gavin your portfolio is totally awesome, love the details in the helmets!!

[mr_ace]

yea showreels are such a hassle to make, but they are nice to see sometimes. it can't hurt to have one on your site, as well as the stills, so if some1 really wants to they can look at it, but yea, i'd agree that the emphasis should be on the site. BTW, what's everyones opinion on website layout? Is it better to just have all your best work, thumbnailed on the very first page of the website?

[GutsandBolts]

mr_ace - it can actually hurt, unless it helps show the work in a better light dont do it.

Gavin - totally agree for a character or prop artist portfolio but many times environments benefit from camera moves that show intended camera angles and any ambient animation or effects.

[Gavin]

Yeah, I'd say it actually can hurt. When I assisted with hiring people at my last job, I'd close the window / media player quickly if I wasn't amused. Or scroll through it possibly missing good work. The reason is just lack of time...I either have to wait for a download/stream (which is just as annoying as opening a dvd and cramming it into my computer) and then get through all of the BS you'd stack into it just to get to the good parts. You'd be surprised how long people devote to opening credits, and usually reels are front loaded...so, if i see your name for a few seconds longer than i want, I'll skip past and probably miss your strongest piece. Yadda yadda yadda, i dunno, I think they're a total waste.

Plus, reels take a while to make. So, I assume it'll usually be outdated to your current skillset. Say I click on your reel and see your old stuff as an example of what you can do rather than investigate further because i'm lazy/busy.

As for web layout, keep it simple. I actually like 1-2 page kind of deals. The only reason mine is more is because it was originally geared for clients who might need more info. Generally, no one cares about "you"...I don't care who your friends are or what your favorite band is. All of that stuff comes AFTER your work. If an employer likes your work, they interview you, that's where you let your personality work for you...otherwise it's just a bunch of filler.

A few sites I really like:

Pior (http://www.pioroberson.com/)
b1ll (http://benregimbal.com/)
Mop (http://www.ldaustinart.com/paul/)
brome (http://adambromell.com/)

Just keep it simple and to the point.

death: Thanks man :)
Guts: Fair enough :)

[coldkodiak]

Yeah, I think the test for yourself about website layout is some sort of three seconds rule. This basically takes into account people's attention span, and the amount of work they look through.
so:

1st second, loads quick
2nd second, lots of cool stuff immediately in your face (pictures with links or something).
3rd second, obvious what you do, who you are, how to contact you, and what you're good for.

My own website is victim of the newb thing, which is it's chalk full of stuff, with only a hint of what I'm about or what's my best work and what I'm good for.

Really, if you're good at multiple things, make multiple websites. Each specialized at that thing and clearly so.


so obviously, demo reels don't fit into people's attention spans, unless it absolutely rules.

[Twindragon]

Another question I have is templates who uses them or do you hire someone to make your site for you...do you pay them etc? I lost all my knowledge on website creation so now I just feel like if I tried to make one look decent it will look like ass.

[Yozora]

I just use very basic HTML. All you really need is:
< img src="blabla" > < / img>
< a href="blabla" > < / a>
< br > (line break)

You can make the layout in photoshop and then use the slice tool. Slice sections such as the logo/buttons (works like crop, kinda) and then save for web (ctrl+alt+shift+S), make sure to save the HTML and images out. The html file it produces is mixed with useless code that you dont really need, but it'll work fine and you can upload everything that it exported onto your web space for a quick and easy website.

edit: just checked out your site, looks like you already know the basics anyway :/

[Snowfly]

twindragon, you should check out kompozer http://kompozer.net/

it's freeware and as good as dreamweaver for basic wysiwyg html. great site management too, comes with ftp, etc.

[Twindragon]

Yozora - my website was a template and I just swapped out the images and text to fit what I wanted. My problem is creating galleries that line up and are spaced evenly and get the text to look right using style sheets..and all that nonsense. if I made something in photoshop there would be areas that would be straight color so I wouldn't want images in there just colors or maybe some areas are repeating like a repeating bg thats where I get confused. My website is decent right now I guess and I could always change out more of the images as well. I just like when I can make everything from scratch.

Snowfly - thanks man...

[AchmedtheSnake]

god - i learnt to do it the hard way - i first fully made my portfolio all shiny in flash - which then took 2 days to load for user hehe

then i optimized and custom made my site using just xhtml and css to what is is today : www.achmedthesnake.com

(for some reason the school taught lessons on weppages and xhtml still remain with me :), i guess it negates the worries that an employer still using an ancient version of explorer could explore my site..)

if you have time - why not try to make your own - for some reason i have a dislike of the generic template sites out there - maybe just cause of how hard i had to try :)

[Blenderhead]

Your site is really cool Achmed. The work is visible immediately. Nice and simple. Well made and creepy characters you got there. :D

[ilegacy]

I think, if you can (and have the skills to make it good) do both. I love to watch good demo reels with cool cut and nice music. Remember Marek Denkos Reel:

http://marekdenko.net/?page_id=4

I love it. If you do it great like that, it pushes the niveau to a new limit i think.

[Ace-Angel]

Demo Reels are actually beneficial if the models make use of animated texture or real-time particle effects.

Also, I know it may sound silly, but if you want to really show off your skills, take a look at couple of nVidia Demo's and you'll understand when DR will come in handy.

[walrus]

Personlly, I generally only want to look at a reel if I'm hiring an animator... maybe a texturer as rotations sometimes show off the model's interaction with light a bit better than stills. But generally, I find it's more trouble than it's worth. And there's nothing more annoying than someone using a video rell to show off non-moving artwork (i.e. renders, illustrations, etc.)

As for layout, I recently changed my whole page layout to be flatter - as in, fewer clicks to get to the art. I think it was a change for the better. I'm even older-school than Achmed the Snake: I too learned to do it the hard way, but when I say that I mean I do all my own HTML coding. (And not just the simple stuff Yozora described.) But if I were to start from scratch with a new site today (instead of modifying the old one) there's no way I would do that. Find a cheap or free site builder.

As for other suggestions on putting a site together, I find that these articles are excellent advice, courtesy of the blog "Lines and Colors. (http://www.linesandcolors.com)"

How NOT to Display your Artwork on the web (http://www.linesandcolors.com/2007/05/31/how-not-to-display-your-artwork-on-the-web/)

How to Display your artwork on the web (http://www.linesandcolors.com/how-to-display-your-artwork-on-the-web/)

Not specifically geared for the game industry, but I think they make a lot of good points nonetheless.

[Yozora]

Heres a helpful html site that shows you the code of how to do basic things;
http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_examples.asp

I'd advise learning these basics first before wrapping your head around css and php.

I personally found it quite fun to learn new stuff but if you dont have the time, patience or interest then I guess sticking to some site builder is the best way, unfortunately I have no recommendations for that.

[Blenderhead]

And another thread gets personal...sigh. Come one guys please.


How to Display your artwork on the web (http://www.linesandcolors.com/how-to-display-your-artwork-on-the-web/)

What's this I read in the article about being able to set up your blog to look like a webpage instead of post after post?

[rv_el]

Web site. Presentable enough (cause that counts too) cuts of your best work and best work only. Presentation should just be enough, do not spend a lot of time on it. you should be spending time replacing artwork in your site

pick the worst thing... replace it.

the way things are these days you can easily host 360 mov/avi spins right there on the site or even .zip pack all these things up to target specific companies and just send that.

I haven't made a real "demo reel" since 2002.

BTW my imprssion of a demo reel is basically a string of work in order.. one after another. you dont really need that.. i would keep things more project based.. like in sectinos based on a characer like "Hulk" or "Hulk Animations". .theres no real reason to have a completely linear way of showing your work

[ilegacy]

walrus
Great Do-Not Link :D I enjoyed reading this.


I think the thread is saying that: For non-animating and non-shader-scripting guys demoreels are a nice toy, but a fast and clear website is enough.

[blankslatejoe]

website. hands down. quicker to look at and clearer images--not to mention that the artists/art directors can easy toss a link across a studio.

It's more of a hassle to toss a reel around.

[Neox]

not with youtube :P

[Ace-Angel]

Compressing the video with a standard program and a common codec is more then enough simpleness that if a company cannot download the Demo Reel to view it with those simple compressions...then I say they're not a serious studio in all regards.

But as I said, Animated Shaders + Animated Particles from a game engine/3d package program is important to be animated in real-time.

Of course, making an animated high-quality .gif could work.

[Twindragon]

This thread is becoming very useful. Believe it or not before I got into 3d I was thinking of doing websites. I went online and studied the code of various websites. I even made a couple websites which weren't too bad I used adobe golive. A lot of the coding was sloppy and things sometimes didn't work properly so then I thought ....you know Ive always liked video games!...so I started to model... and for some reason most of my knowledge of html etc just flowed out of my brain and onto the floor. I know the basics but trying to get tables to work and show up where you want it is where I get stuck. I could stop being so lazy though and just take a day and relearn it, its not like im trying to make the most complex site in the world.

[AchmedtheSnake]

Walrus - Holy shit dude - i didn't realize you were the dude who did the diablo models - awesome old school classics. Now that i look at it - the sorceress has a man-chin thing going on, thank god for the 800x600 pixel limit in the game heh "ICICLE BLAST"

Twindragon - GAAA! tables - avoid them like herpes - cause once you've got them, no amount of cream is gonna sooth the discomfort.....of the the tables i mean...
just use css for design/content layout (e.g. divs) easier to handle and compatible in most.

[Disco Stu]

i like demoreels :s

dunno im talking bout vfs quality level though.

especially when models are connected by theme or enviorment i find a demo reel is da bomb. a little subtle movement added to the characters i find it even greater.

[rv_el]

The big thing for me is linear vs non linear.

i've interviewed and gone through portfolios of peoples work, and they've had both characters and animations.

If your applying to work on a greek mythology game, and you got this massive cave troll section with seperate animations i can click on and download plus images etc.. I will opt to go in there, check out the animations i think are best to check out first and perhaps make a decision right away before checking out your sponge bob animations, or your PSP bouncing blob animations.

Ala carte is good. having a web site that is easy to understand and modular is really good. demo reel on top of that is totaly fine. I like seeing demo reels. They are really cool and show completion... fun stuff.. I will sit through some of them, if they are good. All i know is i stopped making my own linear reels with text and cross fades etc.. back in 2002. well before i even started getting interviews. Animations were single AVI's of spins and run cycles etc.. But then again i never really applied for an animation job. If you feel you should make a full real with name at begining, 5 or 6 animations playing with fades, and then info at the end and a "fin" then sweet! sounds cool.

Best thing to do is find somebody who specifically does what you want to do, and has the job you'd love and ask them what got them there.

Edit: If he says "my best friend is the lead designer" then your talking to the wrong person........... and company.
:)

[rv_el]

Oh also. Template websites are cool, i bet. I havent realy used any. But there are some damn slick ones out there.

The quick and dirty method i use is pretty simple. You just mock up what you want it to be like in photoshop. Then i take that pic and bring it into Image Ready. Then i drag guides over (like in photoshop) so that there are slices running through where you would want dividers for buttons. (in between the buttons)

Then from there you do "Created Slices from Guides" and then save it out as an HTML. Its totaly ghetto but it works. It creates an HTML and all the lil jpgs or gifs named how you want to name them into a sub folder.

From there i just use Dreamweaver. You can center the whole thing in dreamweaver, and then set the button images to link to other HTML. Where hte art goes i just take the lil pieces in there and create thumbs with artwork in them in PS, then replace them into the html by just changing the name in the little box. And then linking those to either other html or raw jpg images.

First time through i'm sure its annoying, but theres gotta be a solid tutorial out there on how to whip out a half decent art site. remember KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid :).

I dunno.

[JacqueChoi]

yup yup!

This site is pretty slick too:

http://psd2cssonline.com/

[ilegacy]

I started HTML coding as i was in school but it was always very basic and i started to hate it, because i'm an artist - not a coder. But because as web"designer" you have to care about ie/firefox/opera + resolution and operating system and maybe activated/deactivated javascript/java - so it's not webdesign, it's webcoding.

For me current website, i decided to use DokuWiki + Template (Dokubrick) + bit Coding + Plugins (Gallery). I like to have the website editable from any webbrowser of the world without a too huge CMS.

AchmedtheSnake
How do you work just with css?! I know: tables for layout are not soo kewl BUT: explain me that: If you have a white empty browser window and you want to place an small image exact into the middle of the website - when the user is resizing it's browserwindow, the image should always stay in the ( now new) middle of the window: how you do this?

I create a table with heigth 100% and 1 cell. In this cell i place a <center><img src=""></center> - done!

I never found out, how i can define a <div> with a heigth of just 100%...

[temmink]

AchmedtheSnake
How do you work just with css?! I know: tables for layout are not soo kewl BUT: explain me that: If you have a white empty browser window and you want to place an small image exact into the middle of the website - when the user is resizing it's browserwindow, the image should always stay in the ( now new) middle of the window: how you do this?

I create a table with heigth 100% and 1 cell. In this cell i place a <center>http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/</center> - done!

I never found out, how i can define a with a heigth of just 100%...

Funnily enough that is the one thing that CSS is a pain in the a** and you have to work around. It's mainly because of the way different browsers interpret the particular bits of the css in that case. If you google it though there are numerous walkthroughs on how to do exactly what you want with DIVS which is the ideal solution. The biggest reason to use CSS is that it should always render the same in any modern browser, tables not so much. IE and Mozilla browsers both do some different things and the last thing you want is your website to be all broken looking because of some weird table spacing or something.

[ilegacy]

I can't understand why it's so hard to do with css :) I like tables for that :) How you guys like my website?

[mr_ace]

after both all the comments in this thread, plus a lecture i just had by ubisoft about how to get into the games industry, i've just gutted my website completely

I'd love to be able to make a proper website some time. the way i do it currently is completely ridiculous, but meh, it gets the job done. thanks for all the comments, this is a handy thread

[AchmedtheSnake]

ilegacy - first you have a "container" (just a name/id") holding your
whole site which has the attributes of being "position:relative" to the
site page.
Then your image is made position:absolute to the left side of the container
- 20pxls or 20% - so whenever you scale the screen it always stays centered
within (which is what i've done to do that on my site):

//In html (should be xhtml !)//
<div id="Container"/>
(or use a class - div class="container")

and,

img alt="ilegacy smells" id="ilegacy_smells" src="http://www.blahblah.com/ilegacy_smells.jpg"
width="20" height="20" (don't forget to close it in < />)




//and in a separate css file://
#Container { (if a div)
.Container { (if a class)

background-color:#222222; (null grey)
position:relative;
top:-20px;
width:900px;
padding-left:5px; (when the window is scaled the down - there's will always be a sliver of the background to the left)
padding-right:5px;*/ (same for the right)
background-image: i've got a tiled image; (my pixeled lines at the back)

and,

#ilegacy_smells {
float: left;
height: 20px;
width: 20px;
padding:0px;
border:none;
margin:0px 0px;
position:absolute;
left:200px;
top:300px;
}

for more details look up my sites "source" (by right clicking view source)
and my css file : http://www.achmedthesnake.com/css/home.css

[MRico]

not with youtube :P

Yeah...and don't use myspace!! I've actually seen people who post a link to their "portfolio" and it's their myspace page with a few images of their work.

[ilegacy]

AchmedtheSnake

Thx, for the tip, i will have a look at it later! BUT: i don't smell ;)

[Blenderhead]

I would really like to get Pior's (http://www.pioroberson.com/) style of presentation in my blog...ever since I read in those articles Walrus posted that you can edit the look of your blog, I've been lookin at tutorials etc. to try and find a way, but I can't. Does anyone know?

[AchmedtheSnake]

i've seen somewhere you can edit the external css the blog provider uses to format all that, umm i'll havta look again

[Blenderhead]

Urgh, sounds complicated! :( I don't know code or anything like that...

[Snowfly]

Blenderhead: Use wordpress :) It's possible to pretty much copy pior's layout with some of the templates and a bit of tinkering around with the settings. I can guide you through the setup if you want.

[DejaVooDoo]

Cool thread. i used to do what rv-el mentioned with the Photoshop slices and whatnot. until i saw so many ports using blog layouts. for me, that was always enough. it was the work that mattered, not the overly done up fancy presentations. You still want to be clean and organized, and cool .. but going overboard is just time that could be better spent (for me) on more art to fill my site with.

All i did was sign up for a free blog, direct it to be hosted at my own website, and fiddle with the template HTML. While, I would never use myspace as a portfolio, i did gain a good familiarity with HTML just by editing my myspace page when i had one. I'd find cool layouts, but they'd have tags or ads attached to em, so I'd dig in the HTML and find those sections and delete em.
That's essentially how I've made my site .. just taking a provided template and deleting parts i didn't want, and adjusting numbers to resize my columns.
Plus, the blog format makes for a super easy way to add new content.

If i have new art to post, it literally would take me 2 minutes to add.
check out what I've got now .. plus, it has an actual demo reel! :)
http://www.evanimation.com/

[Blenderhead]

Blenderhead: Use wordpress :) It's possible to pretty much copy pior's layout with some of the templates and a bit of tinkering around with the settings. I can guide you through the setup if you want.

Hey thanks Snowfly! I'll research Wordpress a little myself first and I'll definitely message you when I get stuck. :paper: Thanks man.

[shadowmonkey]

I started out in film and TV with VHS showreels this was a pain in the butt as most of my work was on digi beta,So I would have to blag using avid off people I knew in the industry.Since then ive converted everything from tape to digital.The downside to showreels as meantioned before is that it takes a lot of time to edit and companies dont have the time to sit through 1 min half of work.It also costs money for disks and posting and again time for producing em.I think personaly the only time you you showreels now is maybe if your an animator or related to using motion.

Images are far better for modelers,conpanies can quickly look through work,you also do not have to worry about checking you compression and making sure you havnt lost detail in your work.A lot of companies can only let you send 10meg max files so think how that is going to look when you send it.Quicktime is good and divx but then you have to consider does the company have the codec?you can include em on the disk but if they dont have it they aint going to spend time downloading the right one.

DejaVooDoo I like what you have done with your blog its nice and simple abd shows of your work great.

I cant afford web hosting or the fact that ive never done any html ,apart from a bit of messing around with myspace,a quick and dirty way for companies to look at work I use Flickr.It has a slide show function in it,This has worked for me so far for getting interviews.