Getting a job and difficult times. (?)

[OneEyedJack]

What's a winning Cover letter?

For both shit jobs and Game jobs.
Not one that can be used for both, but two separate.

How do you get a job if you haven't had one before?
It's extremely rare that companies look for juniors.
So applying for Senior positions is a must.

If you have contacts/friends in the industry, you get a job. It's that simple.
I've seen it too many times, mediocre or even terrible artists getting high pos. jobs because their friend got them in. It's sad.
Do companies even read resumés? Or do they just go to their Art team and ask "hey we need this, who knows one?"
Because that's how it seems to an outsider =/

This even applies to shit jobs. (shit jobs being jobs that don't require any special talent that anyone could do and that you don't really want anyway.)

Even they want people with 4+years experience cleaning public restrooms or lifting boxes.

I just don't get it, please enlighten me on this phenomenon so that I wont be a hobo by summer. =(

(I seem to have come off as a student and this is not the case)

[Vladp]

The same happened at my old workplace. Everybody was somebodies son/daughter/cousin/sister. Some people were EXTREMELY under qualified, especially my boss.

[ghost-d]

Hm.. I wasn´t in the games industry yet (although I hope to get there soon), but I always thought that CG is like the only place where the thing with sons/daughters/cousins/sisters doesn´t apply and that qualification is the only thing that really matters. I mean, what quality can their products meet when they employ their friends/family not regarding their skills?

[eboy]

In any industry. Connections always help.

[Yozora]

hmm I'm an "outsider" and I dont feel that way about the games industry.
I havent seen mediocre/terrible artists get jobs based on who they know, where do you see this stuff happening?

And I can't really give any advice for the topic since I'm in the same boat as you, for now :)

[walrus]

If you're hiring for a position and you have a choice between someone who is an unknown quantity and someone you've worked with before and know what you're getting - or someone who a friend or coworker worked with and highly recommended - then the latter is often the safer bet. That doesn't excuse hiring someone unqualified for a job, but having that recommendation is a plus. For my latest hire, i looked at a lot of reels and there were some good candidates... but in the end it came down to two people who had great reels, one whom I'd worked with before and another whom a friend had worked with and raved about. (But I also passed over another candidate who was a friend of someone in my company but whose reel wasn't all that.)

As for the cover letter, it should be custom written for any job you apply to, bad job or not. (That's not to say you can't recycle from other cover letters you've written.) Too often, people treat the cover letter like "I'm writing this because it's a required part of the submission process. Here I am, I want the job. Thank you." But the ideal cover letter is a lot more than that. It thoroughly (but succinctly) explains why you're perfectly qualified for the job description, and if there's anywhere where you don't fit what they're looking for. "My first job was programming binary load lifters... very similar to your vaporators in most respects."

In the best cover letter I ever read, the artist explained exactly what skills he had that I was looking for, and then clearly explained why even though he didn't have certain skills, why I should be comfortable knowing he could do the job because of past relevant experience. Basically, he answered any question or concern I might have had about his ability to do the job before I had a chance to ask it (or to put his materials on the discard pile.) And yes, he got the job and I didn't regret it.

Anyhow, hope that helps.

[shadowmonkey]

iPawkfox

It is a double edge sword out there you cant get a job because you got no expirence and u cant get that with out a job.

Walrus is right in what is said although sometime you just have to be in right place at the right time.another saying is its not what you know its who you know and I have had some jobs come my way from friends who I have worked with in the past.This will come with time,always keep a list of contacts,,I canot tell you how important that is,Remain optimstic and keep learning,Ive been out of work since Oct2008 ,had lots of interviews but due to the economy at the moment its hard work.So im keeping up my skills posting CVs and work examples and joining sites like this to leran new skills.

Yozora ,, ive seen shit people get jobs who blag they way in saying they know certain things and they dont.More frustrating is that they get away with it.

[LowRez]

What's a winning Cover letter?

For both shit jobs and Game jobs.
Not one that can be used for both, but two separate.

A covering letter should be tailored for each job, 2 studios = 2 quite different covering letters, your enthusiasm and desire to work for any studio needs to be conveyed in a covering letter.

How do you get a job if you haven't had one before?
It's extremely rare that companies look for juniors.
So applying for Senior positions is a must.

No.... We don't advertise Junior positions because we expect to recive CV's and generally get hundreds a month without advertisement, if we see an exceptional candidate we'll invite him for an interview, if a site doesnt show any junior positions, send a speculative applications stateing what you could offer the company and if they have a junior opening not advertised you'll get a call


If you have contacts/friends in the industry, you get a job. It's that simple.
I've seen it too many times, mediocre or even terrible artists getting high pos. jobs because their friend got them in. It's sad.
Do companies even read resumés? Or do they just go to their Art team and ask "hey we need this, who knows one?"
Because that's how it seems to an outsider =/

Yes your connections can matter "sometimes", but I'd never reccommend a friend I didnt think was good enough cause the rest of the team would have to pick up any slack they created and my credability would get called into question. CV's always get read and good ones will be answered, basically get your portfolio and cv awesome

This even applies to shit jobs. (shit jobs being jobs that don't require any special talent that anyone could do and that you don't really want anyway.)

If you don't want a job Im usre your lack of enthusiasm would come across, hindering you even with these "shit jobs"

Even they want people with 4+years experience cleaning public restrooms or lifting boxes.

I just don't get it, please enlighten me on this phenomenon so that I wont be a hobo by summer. =(

Join an agency, improve your CV and in todays market people are losing their jobs so taking any job you can may be nececary, but because theres so many out of work people will willingly work any job with a smile, if you don't jump through hoops for "shit jobs" you will be outdone by a "i'll work with out complaints guy" who just wants any job...



Hope some of that helps....

[Buzzy]

"hey we need this, who knows one?"
This happens ALL the time. Looking for a new employee is time consuming and potentially costly. If someone already knows of a candidate, its much more effective than searching for one.
I have a friend who is an animator. He and I worked together for years, me making rigs and him animating them. We have a very good understanding of how each other works and we work very well together. So, if a company I worked for needed an animator, he'd be the first I'd recommend. Everyone wins. He gets a job, I get to work with a trusted former co-worker, and the company gets 2 symbiotic teammates who already know each others habits.

My former art director was a total joke. No business being an artist, let alone an art director at a video game developer. He hired a guy once who was way way underqualified. He had no experience, his demo was atrocious - laughable even. Yet he was hired anyway. The AD's excuse? "He's cheap and he's available." Worst manager ever.

[seven]

No one wants to work with someone who will make your job harder. Hiring is and should be done with this in mind. Experience working with someone means that the expected result may fill that need. Games is a stressful business. Minimizing the frustrations and explosions that happen at the end of a dev cycle is key. Showing in your cover letter that you are capable of completing projects with a team and working through those problems tends to be very important.

[Yozora]

shadowmonkey; Where? How do you guys see this happen, do the "shit" artists brag on some forums that they got a new job or something? So far all the artists I see posting about getting a job (mostly at polycount) aren't bad.
Can you pm me with some examples? I'm really interested, not for mocking purposes, but for motivational purposes.
I mean depending on how "shit" these people are, it can bring hope to people that if this guy can do it, you definitely can too.

The AD's excuse? "He's cheap and he's available." Worst manager ever.

Hey I'm cheap and available too, tell him to pick me! pick me :(

And about joining an agency... has anyone without any professional work experience actually had ANY success with an agency? I've been contacted by all sorts of agencies for many jobs (datascope, opm, aardvark swift, amiqus, banbury, aston carter, people source, abrs, and a bunch of other random ones that found me on linkedin) they give me the specs and tell me they're gonna contact the game companies and they'll get a response within 2 days - but all that ever happens is they disappear forever and you have to contact them to find out it failed.

Every single agency has been the same for me, not a single interview - not even a hint of any actual effort. But it doesnt really "bother" me, I think its worth letting them do their thing (even if "their thing" is nothing) since it cant hurt me can it?

I just apply directly to companies instead now. But I can see why sometimes agencies never update with anything - because most game companies dont even bother replying to applications, so the agencies wont have anything new to say anyway -.-

[LowRez]

shadowmonkey; Where? How do you guys see this happen, do the "shit" artists brag on some forums that they got a new job or something? So far all the artists I see posting about getting a job (mostly at polycount) aren't bad.
Can you pm me with some examples? I'm really interested, not for mocking purposes, but for motivational purposes.
I mean depending on how "shit" these people are, it can bring hope to people that if this guy can do it, you definitely can too.



Hey I'm cheap and available too, tell him to pick me! pick me :(

And about joining an agency... has anyone without any professional work experience actually had ANY success with an agency? I've been contacted by all sorts of agencies for many jobs, they give me the specs and tell me they're gonna contact the game companies and they'll get a response within 2 days - but all that ever happens is they disappear forever and you have to contact them to find out it failed.

Every single agency has been the same for me, not a single interview - not even a hint of any actual effort. But it doesnt really "bother" me, I think its worth letting them do their thing (even if "their thing" is nothing) since it cant hurt me can it?

I just apply directly to companies instead now. But I can see why sometimes agencies never update with anything - because most game companies dont even bother replying to applications, so the agencies wont have anything new to say anyway -.-

I got my current job (my first) Via Semag recruitment agency. If your struggling to get interviews then can you point me to a reel and I'll give some feedback if you like. They got me 2 interviews within 2 weeks of joining them....

[Yozora]

cool, never heard of that agency before - worth a try

Hey it has a referral thingy, you can get £500 when they find me a job \o/

[shadowmonkey]

LowRez lol ive used seemag got one interview and nothing since prob about time i chased him up lol.


Yozora
I have managed to get interviews off my own back
4 interviews myself vs 1 interview useing about 5 agents.
Be very careful with some as they say they have a job and when you find out what company it is with some digging around on your own (they never tell you just in case you aplly urself)
it says we dont except agencies...
I caught one agency out as i asked can the conferm the companies (it was about 10 of them apparently) so that I can aviod double posting my work off.
The reply was that they dont keep lists of who they send work off to as in individual artist,,,,,,hmmm so how the hell can he chase up the companies on my behalf?since then i have stopped using that agency.
The other draw back can be that its cheaper and better for your own sallary if you can get work off your own back as the comapny that employes you does not have to pay the agency a finding fee.

Yozora this is actual person who was shit worked at my last company,well when i say he was shit, he knew a lot of stuff(and talked a load of bollocks most of time) just his work was sloppy,we were always fixing his misstakes,he was on shit loads more money than other artists,he spent far to much time in work on the internet and never listened to how the team all work to the same techniques and standards, ect.not that im one for slagging matches I just treat it as one of those things that can happen.

[DejaVooDoo]

A few years ago, I attempted contacting a recruiter about some help when I was trying to get my first job. What she told me was that using a recruiter could be a potential hinderence to an artist just starting out, and she recommended I DON'T use her in my job search. I found that to be credible for the simple fact that she was turning down business. The reasoning was because of some type of fees that the hiring studio might have to pay this recruiter. So, if a studio is borderline wanting to hire you, the added fees (which i was told could be a percentage of your salary) could make you more expensive to the studio than they think you're worth.
Now, this could've been total bs, and she could've just thought I sucked and had no chance of landing a job .. but I'll never know.
So anyways, that was my experience with a recruiter.
I'll see if I still have the email from her to quote some of that info..

[DejaVooDoo]

O, and that just by signing up with a recruiter, if they send your resume to a studio, and that studio hires you within a year or whatever, the studio is still liable to pay the recruiter. Even if you've stopped using them.

[shadowmonkey]

DejaVooDoo very true if your starting out in games your considerd to be cheap employment at first.say you start on 16k to 18K the company will pay the agency on top so it could end up being more like 19 to 21 prob more>
the added fees (which you was told could be a percentage of your salary)
True but does not effect your wage I might add.
So two candidates go for a job both with the same skills,one applied direct the other Agency.Who would you employe?
On the other hand an agency send you for an interview with a big company where money isnt an issue,they like your work and you,and you get the job

[OneEyedJack]

Everything you've written has been very interesting to read.
And has given me a somewhat better understanding of how it goes.
But as you all pointed out, contacts gets you the job.
Although, this probably should be ignored since this applies to all work in general.

So I take it, not sounding desperate, is something to look out for.
Regardless of how much you need it.
(Crap I messed up by writing a thread!)

[JacqueChoi]

Gabe Newell once mentioned something along the lines of everyone on the team looking for peers, not pupils.

With the experience of having shipped titles on your resume, you get a much better sense of what that persons ability is within a dev team, timelines, ability to adapt, and what kind of quality to expect.

If you guys haven't seen Randy Pauch's infamous "Last Lecture" he teaches a VERY valuable life lesson.
http://cmu.edu/uls/journeys/randy-pausch/index.html

Walls and barriers are in place to separate the people who REALLY REALLY REALLY want it, from the people who don't necessarily want to put in that amout of effort.

Getting a game art job is not just about graduating from school, having a cookie cutter demo reel in hand, and spamming every studio on gamedevmap.

90% of the time game studios are looking for a very specific set of skills they just don't have the time to teach.

The most valuable thing you can do, is get god honest opinions and critiques about what your weaknesses are, and work on them. This might take years to learn and correct.

Those that take that time to address their need for improvement on colour theory, composition, edgeflow, silhouette, shaders, proportions etc, will get first dibs.



You can bitch and complain all you want, but there's a WHOLE shitload of us professional artists on this site, and there's a whole wack of mini-competitions that run throughout the year.

We monitor how much you guys improve, and how well you can give and receive critiques. You can meet plenty of on this site who WILL vouch for your abilities, your ability to deliver things on a deadline, produce quality work, and willingness to learn new workflows and pipelines.



It's really a tough road, it's hard work (harder than most of you students would even think), but in the end, it's TOTALLY worth it.


You all have the ability to work at places like Blizzard, Valve, and Epic.

You just need to question your will.

[DejaVooDoo]

I totally agree with joxx. Desire is evident in your work. And its a life-long pursuit. There is no magical threshold that exists. Improvement is constant. There is ALWAYS someone better and more skilled and more talented. Just have to keep at it, and keep wanting it.

Here's that email I dug up from back in '03:

>Thank you for your interest in our recruiting services. We would love to assist you in your job search, however, we feel at this stage of your career using recruiting services would not be in your best interest. We would like to inform you about the recruiting process and why now is not the time in your career to utilize such services.
>
>Without a few years of hands on Game Development experience, recruiting firms can only get in your way of breaking into or furthering your career. Companies pay fees to recruiters to find them specific talent that they can not otherwise locate themselves. Most recruiting contracts with game companies specify a 12 month representation period. What this means to you is that after a recruiting firm submits your resume, that studio can not hire you for one year without paying a recruiters fee.
>
>We are not interested in the chance at making a quick buck at the expense of your career. Other firms may take your resume and run with it, we would advise NOT utilizing ANY recruiting services during your current job hunt. The damage that can be done because an irresponsible recruiter submitted your resume to every game company this side of heaven is huge. Imagine your dismay when you get rejection letters because there is a fee to hire you. You will be much more effective approaching companies yourself.
>
>We suggest that you read the book Get In The Game: Careers in the Game Industry, now available on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0735713073/gignewscom/102-6473131-7752962 After reading this book, submit your resume directly to various game companies that interest you.
>
>Here are some other helpful links:
>
>www.gignews.com - Development Tips, Open Jobs, Job Hunting Advice, Good Source of Industry People.
>www.gdse.com - Game Development Search Engine
>www.gamasutra.com - Development Tips, Jobs & Hunting Advice, Good Source of Industry People.
>www.neoseeker.com - Game Product Reviews, Good Database for Identifying Companies by Genre or Platform.
>www.vgyellowpages.com - The Video Game Yellow Pages.
>
>Follow these suggestions to be your most effective in your job hunt and face-to-face Interviews.
>http://www.gignews.com/perfectresume.htm - Creating A Perfect Resume
>http://www.gignews.com/jobcampaign_part1.htm - Your Personalized Job Hunt Campaign.
>http://www.gignews.com/interview_questions.htm - Interviewing Tips.
>http://www.gignews.com/gamereferences.htm - Your References.
>
>Please keep our company in mind as your experience expands. When you have two or more professional game credits under your belt, then GameRecruiter.com will be able to professionally present your qualifications. We know the key industry players and understand the hiring process. We also have access to many jobs that are never advertised. We look forward to building a long-term relationship with you - let's just join forces when the time is right in your career.

[DejaVooDoo]

Links and such may be out of date.. seeing as how they're so old.

[plunq]

Good info in this thread.
My advice for students would be to do whatever you can to get your foot in the door at any place. My "in" was that of a PA that didn't pay for 4 months. Anywhere is better than nowhere. Once you get your foot in the door you start to build your network of friends and coworkers. If you don't like where you are, pretty soon you'll have enough experience and acquaintances to get a better job.

I have a question about independent recruiters. Have many of you guys used them, or found them useful? I've been contacted by a few through Linkedin but have not commited to using anyone yet. The obvious benefit is a job without having to do too much leg work yourself. But does anyone have horror stories or things to watch out for? I've always been employed through past coworkers and friends but I'm now living in a different city/country (Toronto>Seattle) and don't have that solid network of local friends I enjoyed before. Would you say it's better to forget the recruiters and target companies yourself? Thanks for any thoughts.

[KEDavidson]

i don't think i'd like to call my own work into question, but i can tell you that i have plenty of friends working at various game companies and none of them have gotten me a job.
though too be honest i haven't actually asked.... maybe just forget i said anything

[segawa]

More often then not I hear tons of stories (friends, mentors, etc) That the game industry is a right place right time type of industry... I believe if you are exceptional then jobs will come easy to you... We all are working towards this status,,, but in the mean time you're gonna get thrown into the slush pile and just hope that the art director sees something they can use in you... Or the studio bit off more than it could chew and needs a handful of artists right away.... Thats how I got my first job...lol

hmmm i think I'm sounding a bit pessimistic, that was not my goal lol...
Bottom line, don't get discouraged... Its not personal on their end so it need not be personal on yours... Just work hard till you die!

My question for anyone with insight... How long between rejection letters is ok to re apply?.... I can re-tool a portfolio pretty quickly based on feedback given by a company.... If you apply once per month does that seem too much? lol... Killin em!

[devoid]

As far as the original question of "wining cover letter" I know it's absolutely necessary for the HR people to see, but in the 3 years of reviewing candidates and interviewing I've never read anyone's cover letter, and rarely the "objective statement" on a resume. Sorry, but first thing I do is click on the link to the work. Then if its good do i look at the resume's past work experience. My suggestion is keep it simple and try to worry more about your portfolio. From what I've seen the cover letter and resume is more of a weed out process for HR than a "ooh this is good, pass it on" sort of thing.

I'm not sure about resubmissions. Soonest I've ever seen someones stuff getting past HR and to our desks was 3 months after the first submission, and unfortunately only one new piece was in the portfolio. If you have gotten criticism/suggestions with your rejections, and have made the appropriate changes to your portfolio by all means re-apply.

Friends - this is much more along the lines of compatibility of someones personality than work. A recommendation almost always goes to the top of the list because it means that some of the unknowns are gone and that is a lot less of a risk for a company. I've seen and heard from friends some wacky stuff with hiring less qualified people, but that's almost always been in a crunch period where there isn't a lot of applicants. I haven't seen any obviously bad artists get work simply because they know someone.

[Yozora]

>Without a few years of hands on Game Development experience, recruiting firms can only get in your way of breaking into or furthering your career. Companies pay fees to recruiters to find them specific talent that they can not otherwise locate themselves. Most recruiting contracts with game companies specify a 12 month representation period. What this means to you is that after a recruiting firm submits your resume, that studio can not hire you for one year without paying a recruiters fee.


hmm really? I never thought letting them do that would be harmful :( What happens if I apply to "X" company myself, and then 3 months later a recruiter approaches me and forwards my CV to "X" company, but "X" company claim they hired me based on my initial application 3 months ago?
Does recruiter still gain anything?

Or what happens if a recruiter tells you the company before they submit your CV, and then you apply to that company yourself and say no to the recruiter?



If you have gotten criticism/suggestions with your rejections, and have made the appropriate changes to your portfolio by all means re-apply.

Has anyone actually got crits/suggestions from a rejection before? I've never seen it happen, even when I did art tests. The only "crit" I got was lack of professional experience.

[segawa]

I had a applied to a fairly large company, and got a really nice rejection letter lol... Saying that they had hired someone else... So I wrote back right away asking what led to the decision about me... I didn't at all expect an answer back but I did a week later.... With some pretty specific advice about what they look for... So it really does pay to be a polite pest haha!

[Mike_K]

I can't really comment on it as I havn't much experience about the whole hiring/applying business, but as I understand the portfolio is definitely the most important thing.

I think this is really worth a read:

http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/money_mouth.htm

"For the students and amateurs trying to get into the industry, do not complain about the difficulty getting a job. It is not difficult to get a job. It's difficult to get a good portfolio. People with good portfolios get lots of job offers."

Would I be right in saying that someone with a captivating and heart warming covering letter and a strong resume with a medicore portfolio would lose out to a guy with an incredible portfolio of work with a slightly brief but to the point covering letter and resume? Perhaps at some companies, but the big good ones, I think, could afford to wait out to find the guy with the excellent portfolio.

but don't listen to me I dont know how most places think, but i personally like to think that when someones work is good enough they will have doors open to them rather than scraping at the walls trying to find a way in

[shadowmonkey]

My question for anyone with insight... How long between rejection letters is ok to re apply?.... I can re-tool a portfolio pretty quickly based on feedback given by a company.... If you apply once per month does that seem too much? lol... Killin em!

I would say about 6 months untill you re apply to companies.

[shadowmonkey]

hmm really?

Has anyone actually got crits/suggestions from a rejection before? I've never seen it happen, even when I did art tests. The only "crit" I got was lack of professional experience.


Yes I have had one or two,they were very vague and you only get them if you write and ask ,,some compies I asked for feed back didnt even bother.One company who I didnt even give me an interview ,the head guy offerd to crit my work in detail,,,

[CENOBITE]

Hurm... I have plenty of friends in the industry... too bad they are mostly QA.

[cashfire]

Shadowmonkey: I read that article before, its a great help. It really broke it down. Thats why I been trying to keep creating and practice every chance I get. But it gets hard sometimes to stay focused, I've applied at a couple but they never really give any feedback, so thats why I joined this site.

[Jackwhat]

Art is the one thing I really leave my fucking giant ego at the door with. I don't see how theres anything to be gained from moaning about lack of comments or replys and I agree completely with what poop said;

"For the students and amateurs trying to get into the industry, do not complain about the difficulty getting a job. It is not difficult to get a job. It's difficult to get a good portfolio. People with good portfolios get lots of job offers."

I got turned down from my first application to a company after leaving Uni in September and that set the bar for me, I was determined not to apply till i got my shit together... So i painted a lot and now im trying again! If I fail this time then i'll fill in the blanks in my portfolio and eventually ill have something that will piss on all my competition. Im aiming for world domination after all! :E

[Yozora]

I don't see how theres anything to be gained from moaning about lack of comments or replys

I'm not sure who you're referring to but everything in this thread has been valid questions that are worth discussing in my opinion, not moaning. Its nice to share experiences and finding out how things went for others.

And Mike you'll find out in a few months, tell us how it goes!

[goat]

I can't really comment on it as I havn't much experience about the whole hiring/applying business, but as I understand the portfolio is definitely the most important thing.

I interviewed someone who's work was good but they really came across in the interview badly and didn't get the job. So your personal skills are just as important. No one wants to work with a jerk. If your an ass in a 45 min interview think about 50-60 hr crunch week....all set.

[Jackwhat]

Yozora - The first post was a bit of a bitch but apart from that no one at all. I guess it was more of a broad statement as what im trying to say is theres no shortcut to doing the work yourself anyway.

[Ritorian]

Joxx - well said and very good advice ;)

It is a long road, and I finally made it last November, after handing out tons of resumes, over the coarse of a good year. I'm not necessarily in games, we do simulation work, which is pretty close in those respects, as we and clientelle rely on real time engines for our models. we also have that extra leaniency when it comes too poly count and texture limitations, but there very similar jobs. Sooo am I happy? Hell ya I am! but I'm still not at the position I want to be at, which is a character artist. Will I get there one day? I beleive so, I won't stop till I am!! It's just a matter of practising my @$$ off and learning as much as I can, Dominance War is a great opurtunity for me to really learn some good stuff, and become more effecient at what I can do. I guess what I'm trying to say is, If you really want it and work hard at it, it will come ( I know it's very cliche, but it's true) just have to be patient... a little talent doesn't hurt either ;).

[micron]

I interviewed someone who's work was good but they really came across in the interview badly and didn't get the job. So your personal skills are just as important. No one wants to work with a jerk. If your an ass in a 45 min interview think about 50-60 hr crunch week....all set.

Too true. I've given a thumbs down to lots of people with solid experience and good portfolios based on the way they came across personality wise in their interview. I had this one guy, great portfolio, worked on some really huge block buster film projects. He comes in with a silk shirt unbuttoned half way down his torso, wears his sunglasses through the entire day, drops names non-stop, and actually gets a bit aggressive and dismissive with the interviewers. He talked to 12 people and every single one of them gave him a thumbs down because he was 'too cool for the room'.

I recently hired a guy who clearly wasn't up to speed technically because he was eager, had a decent porfolio, and had personality to spare. This guy hadn't really done anything fantastic professionally and we talked ot people far more qualified, but just based on the way he came across in his interview he made us want to work with him. Haven't regretted it or a second.

[RabidKitten]

Quality art work, will always rule over experience, connections, and a nicely typed cover letter. And that only comes with hard work and dedication. Every job I've ever gotten in the games industry has been a direct result of the work in my portfolio. The vast majority of game artists I've met got their jobs with the portfolios they presented. Connections help, but usually only as a direct pipeline to an art director who can look at your work.

Good luck :)

[Kamui]

Just gotta keep working at it. I'm currently trying to switch from being an environment artist to a character artist and it's slim pickings. I've worked on 5 shipped games over 5.5 years and I'm finding it's not helping for character positions. I also attribute that my portfolio isn't quite up to par so that just means more work to do. The only crappy part is paying rent, living expenses, and so on. Finding motivation is tough and frustrating at times for sure.

It's true you gotta be good. But unless your skills are amazing, a bit of luck helps a lot too.

[is_chimera]

plunq, I've recently had good experience working with a recruiter. I was contacted by a few through linkedin as well – but you can tell who's shady and who isn't by just asking basic questions. I made certain I kept control of where my portfolio was being sent and what I was applying for. Lots of phone discussions. Lots of emails. They seemed to know about quite a few openings that weren't listed anywhere too.

I get the impression some recruiters have credibility because they scrutinize and take the time to place the right person with the right job? And some just.. send your stuff all over the place (or that's what I've heard). I dunno, I think recruiters are worth a go at least.

[shadowmonkey]

Shadowmonkey: I read that article before, its a great help. It really broke it down. Thats why I been trying to keep creating and practice every chance I get. But it gets hard sometimes to stay focused, I've applied at a couple but they never really give any feedback, so thats why I joined this site.

I hear you there mate its hard sometimes to stay focused,but that is what makes the difference,some companies will notice and remember you if you keep them updated on your progress and dont be affraid to send them more recent work,it shows comitment.e.g as the one lead artist who offered me a crit of my portfolio notice a massive improvment in skills.The next best thing is sites such as this.....I remeber a long time ago when I didnt have the internet,out of work living in the middle of no where trying to learn new skills was a nightmare.I went back to uni to learn and surround myself with creative people,then found work after graduating.
BTW some companies might not give you feedback as some have a policy of not doing due to high level of applications.

wish you all the best with finding work just keep working the same way as im doing at the moment

[Ritorian]

QUICK QUESTION FOR INTERVIEWERS OUT THERE:

Heres a quick question for u interviewers out there, your all saying that if u have a bad interview you prolly wont get the job. What if your really nervous in the interview but u can kinda tell that this person is a decent person, does this have a bad impact on the overall decision of hiring this person? I can get pretty nervous sometimes, but i know that I'm a great person and would be awesome too work with, it's just sometimes when i meet new people it's hard for me too be myself, no what i mean?

[RabidKitten]

Ritorian: Being nervous at an interview is fine. The company is usually looking for somebody who is really enthusiastic, and has a passion to work with them. I remember my game job interviews, and all I did was geek out and talk about games and ask questions. This is pretty much what they like, somebody who is passionate. Just try to avoid coming off as uninterested, and unenthusiastic. Ask questions, ask more then the interviewer. Even if you come off as a shaky mess, at least your heart is in it, which is golden as far as I can tell.

[devoid]

Yep - nervousness isn't a negative factor in an interview for us. Everyone knows that an interview is an important thing and nerves are to be expected.

[shadowmonkey]

Most companies already know that you a capable of doing the work from looking at your portfolio,if you get an interview,the interview is to meet you and find out more about yourself as a person ,what you aspire to,what you enjoy,your strnghs and weaknesses and if you can fit in with what they are looking for.

RabidKitten is totaly right on how to be.After all we are all human,,,,although I have seen some strange people out there :)and always do research on the company that your invited to.

[Spacemonkey]

QUICK QUESTION FOR INTERVIEWERS OUT THERE:

Heres a quick question for u interviewers out there, your all saying that if u have a bad interview you prolly wont get the job. What if your really nervous in the interview but u can kinda tell that this person is a decent person, does this have a bad impact on the overall decision of hiring this person? I can get pretty nervous sometimes, but i know that I'm a great person and would be awesome too work with, it's just sometimes when i meet new people it's hard for me too be myself, no what i mean?

You can tell when a person is nervous, the most important thing if you get an interview is personality.. do you fit with the team, do your personality's clash. Its easy to create a bad atmosphere at work, which benefits no one so its best to make hires that get on with the established team.

[micron]

Wether or not nervousness is a factor depends on where you are interviewing and the position you are interviewing for. If you are interviewing for some sort of leadership position being nervous will deffinitely have a negative effect on your evaluation. If the environment just doesn't tolerate timid people well, then you probably won't get the job.

[BigJohn]

I've been trying to get an interview for a long time now. But I can't seem to be able to get that far. So who knows, maybe the cover letter really is quite important. I keep mine very simple. Really, I just always assumed that the portfolio is the only thing that matters.

I know I'm fresh and without experience. So I can't really expect to get through the door based on the fact that I have experience. And I have no connections within the industry, so I can't rely on that. Basically, it all comes down to my portfolio in that case. Which is a good thing, cause that's what I want to be doing anyways, work on my characters.

Although that's another issue I've been confronted with. I know for a fact that I want to be doing characters. But I keep hearing that it's more of a thing for people with lots of experience, and that I'm wasting my time even trying to get a job like that with no experience. To me, that doesn't sound like a reason to quit. I'm also real focused by nature, so there's no way I'm ever stopping. But hey, maybe they're right? who knows...

Anyways, do you guys have any advice for someone in my situation?

[crazyfool]

BigJohn - I know exactly what you mean, Im in a very similar situation, desperately wanting to do characters. I knew nobody in the industry, had no idea what went into games development, I just enjoy creating artwork. I must of applied to 10-14 studios before I got an interview, they were after a trainee/graduate artist and when I got the phone call I found out it was for VFX. I took the job. Now Im working my buns off in my spare time to get a character job there.

my point is just keep your eyes open for these trainee and graduate positions, they are your ticket to getting in, you may be doing environment, designing, VFX or whatever but atleast you are in, then push your character stuff in your spare time and let your boss know you have an interest and you might get your break. if that dont work then atleast you have experience and also titles under your belt. you never know though, if your portfolios good enough and you can display a high understanding of concepting, low/high poly modelling, texturing, rigging and rendering skills, you may get in straight away.

cover letters are really quite hard to get right, my advice is just be honest and dont be boring haha, the whole I work well in teams, Im punctual blah blah blah should be left for retail jobs. they want to know your skills, what you want to achieve, problem solving skills, and a bit of personality stuff, also another big part is why you want to work there? this shows a genuine interest. Do not quit, just keep working in your spare time, push yourself on every model and learn learn learn.

as for overcoming nerves, I was nervous as hell in my interview, just be attentive, enthusiastic and honest and you should be fine. Im sure if you are going for higher positions nerves arent going to be an issue because you should have done it all before and know what to expect

hope it helps man