Dominance War IV Rules

[Parnell]

but we are not allowed to break our map into smaller ones... so how can we use multiple uv sets then?

cause if i use a tiled a deteil texture i would have a new sheet


if multiple uv sets are allowed then where is the point of a 2k limitation?

i am just a bit confused :(

Ya as far as I know breaking up the textures has never been allowed in a DW.
BigToe are you saying that people are allowed to make multiple uv sets thus allowing them to break apart their textures and tile their textures? Giving them insane texture resolution? Or is this only allowed for say a detail map?
B

[BiG ToE]

here is the example used, if this is how your planing on doing your uv's, you will be fine:

1 uv set for normals where none of the polygons are mirrored and overlapped and 1 for diffuse with mirroring.

[MRico]

I think what he meant was can we have 2 diffuse, 2 normal and so on...

What you're saying sounds like the procedure of getting clean normals. Dammit...now I'm confused too.

Edit: Can you post a pic? I need to see what you mean, I'm confused.

[BiG ToE]

don't have an image to show, but, maybe this will help.

Close yours eyes. Gottem closed, ok, now picture you have a massive character with like 4 arms, and six legs. When you sculpt that bad boy, you may find yourself adding detail to each arm that may just differ from the rest. But, your lazy and don't feel like texturing each arm and leg as seperate objects. What to do, what to do. You unwrap your low poly, all legs and arms, no overlapping, we all know what happens when you overlap uv's and try to normal map. Ok, that's one uv set. Now it's time to texture, you don't want to texture each arm and leg, so you take the arm uv's and overlap them, same for the legs. This will save space allowing you to increasethe uv's size which in turn will give you better detail. This is uv set #2.

so your end result is not an increase in uv size, just 2 sets of uv unwraps for the same character.


now keep in mind, I'm not doing this, but someone on my forum asked if they could and the answer was yes. I'm assumming this is how they would go about doing it. I could be wrong, so all this typing, for no reason.:cry:

[MRico]

You can have a normal map that is different than the diffuse....but applied correctly? Is that what my headache right now is all about? (took me forever to understand this concept)

Is that something that most game engines support? Cuz I'm just hearing about this now and I've been doing this for about 28 years.

Just kidding, lol. Well if that's the case it seems legit, as long as it's not 2 maps of anything, I guess.

[Lunatic]

ahhhhhhhrgs


then next year we should add those information onto the rules!!!

cause i sculpted now just symetrical most of teh part so i can mirror the normals same as my diffuse map :(

i wish we would have now 1 more week so i could break up my symetry more :(

ah well good to know for next time!

and thanks for letting us know BIG TOE!!!!

[Parnell]

Ahh ok. So the textures still aren't being seperated just different UV channels.
Thanks for the clarification.
B

[JacqueChoi]

I think next year should be simpler restriction.

something like 25Mb for everything.

That way if you decide against using a Normal/Spec map, you can have a LOT more polygons to play with.

More textures = Less polygons.




Final renders should be mandatory In-Engine IMO. (This is a video-game contest afterall, and it's also what differs this contest from the CGtalk/Zbrushcentral contests).

[FrozZT]

If you decide to include a summon and pets with your character, do you need to include 3 angles of the pet, summon and your character to the modelsheet? That'd be 9 angles total for my modelsheet.. Or is it ok with 3 angles of the main character and only sideviews of the pet and the summon adding up to 5 angles total?

Yay 48 hours extension! :)

-Niklas

[Destructica]

where do we post our final image,modeling sheet and other stuff?

[BiG ToE]

go to the main war site, pick the team you joined, then look for a button that says edit entry.. Then just upload everything.

[FredH]

FrozZT - If your pets are summoned, it's more like a spell, so you don't need to draw them unless you have a lot of free time on your hands;)

[chai]

Edit: Just noticed there was an extension woohoo !

[FrozZT]

Thank's Fred! :) That's what i wanted to hear! :D The extension was very well needed also! :thumb: More time for the final image!

I bet the results of this year is gonna be freakin crazy... Lots of cool stuff out there!

-Niklas

[WhiteGuardian]

Here i wanna show you how i optimize my uvmap.
Hope this not illegal or prohibitted to the rule :D

[bin]

^i don't see what's wrong w your UV layout :paper:

[coldkodiak]

Hi Fred. Here's my Q: The presentation shot supposedly can't have any post effects.

Me and a couple other of the boys at polycount are using the marmoset engine for most of our final rendering. The engine is defaulted with post effects, it was designed with them in mind from the looks of it.

Bloom and what not I understand turning off, but there's a sharpness toggling and other settings towards that end.
I'm wondering if we could keep the default levels, which is basically around the same bias as other games.
With the effect off, the sharpness is actually reduced quite a bit (imo). I don't feel having it on gives us an unfair advantage over a regular render (http://www.gameartisans.org/dominancewar/spotlights/gun1280/art_1.html), but having it off definitely makes some of the work we've put into making our assets work with the engine moot if we can't have it be as competitive using the engine.

http://www.coldconcept.net/domwar4/sharpenq.jpg

Your call.

[katzeimsack]

There is no differenece between a bloom ingame or in ps.. they are produced the same way.. same with sharpen. would be unfair if people rendering in maya aren't allowed to use those effects, but other are.

[Destructica]

thanks a lot

[Dean Ferguson]

Katzeimsack:
If you are refering to those features being available in Marmoset then it's worth pointing out the software is completely free to use.

It's a person's choice if they don't want to use it. Nothing unfair about that.

[coldkodiak]

There is no differenece between a bloom ingame or in ps.. they are produced the same way.. same with sharpen. would be unfair if people rendering in maya aren't allowed to use those effects, but other are.

Yeah, but you can always render a larger higher res image, and downsize it.

Marmo has a fixed resolution.

But the point here is that game engines are using sharpen filtering passes as a default these days. Game engines mip the hell out of your textures. You don't have to worry about texture filtering in Maya the same way you do in a game engine.

[Gavin]

I'm curious about that as well. I can't see why you would not be allowed to use features like that that are in Marmoset. The argument that some of the features give a disadvantage to, say, people using Maya is kind of BS...you might as well say Maya renders have an advantage because they can place point lights :)

[fly_soup]

Regarding shaders and lighting/rendering solutions: It says that any of them are okay to use, but during the judging the process, is their use taken into account? Like if someone renders their presentation shot in Max with a full Mental Ray SSS shader, ray traced reflectivity, refraction, and radiosity, volumetric lighting, 8-bit transparency that responds to lighting, and a procedural fur shader-- would that be taken into consideration (negatively), when comparing that entry to one of equal model/texture quality that was rendered within the scope of current in-game constraints, or does only the final quality matter?

[Parnell]

So a simple "sharpen" filter isn't allowed in photoshop but a post effect in a engine that does the exact same thing is?
I just tried out Marmoset and it's cool no doubt...but it says POST EFFECTS and sharpen and bloom are definitely that.
I just say if friggin mental ray SSS is allowed in Max but a simple sharpen filter in PS isn't...but is allowed in some freeware engine as a post effect...just seems kind of silly to me.
B

[coldkodiak]

So a simple "sharpen" filter isn't allowed in photoshop but a post effect in a engine that does the exact same thing is?
I just tried out Marmoset and it's cool no doubt...but it says POST EFFECTS and sharpen and bloom are definitely that.
I just say if friggin mental ray SSS is allowed in Max but a simple sharpen filter in PS isn't...but is allowed in some freeware engine as a post effect...just seems kind of silly to me.
B

Sharpen changes existing pixels outside of a render setting.

A game engine is a raw image turned out of the real deal nitty gritty architecture that renders our art in real time.

Huge difference, especially considering this is a game art contest.

[Parnell]

Sharpen changes existing pixels outside of a render setting.

A game engine is a raw image turned out of the real deal nitty gritty architecture that renders our art in real time.

Huge difference, especially considering this is a game art contest.

You don't get what I'm saying...of course I know it's a game art contest I've entered this thing 4 years in a row.
I just find it silly that we will allow mental ray, SSS and ANY type of lighting or rendering...yet a simple sharpen filter in photoshop trying to emulate a post effect in a game engine is forbidden.
B

[katzeimsack]

coldkodiak:

marmorsets and photoshops sharpen filter have probably the exact same code. It's the same thing and it's both a posteffect. Marmorset renders the scene and THEN applies the sharpen filter, just like I would do it in photoshop.

I bet you can turn of the sharpen and bloom in marmorset, so you aren't forced to use the post effects..

It'S silly to allow the same thing if a shader in a game does it, but not if a human does it (with photoshop).

I don't want to render the image and then put the rendered image into crysis/marmorset/unreal/whatever in order to have bloom and sharpen..

[jocz]

maybe the good way will be to have a presentation shot in REALTIME (max/maya viewport/marmoset/xnormal/ue3 etc), without post,
and a beauty shot rendered with any kind of render and post,
but I know this is not the point :lucky:

[DreameR]

~ I gotta agree with pretty much everything Parnell is saying. I see sharpen as pretty much in the same league as 'Hue shift' because it's only displaying what is Already there in a different way.

[jocz]

just re read the rules, and found that
The only adjustments allowed are: Brightness/Contrast, and Hue/Saturation.

Levels / curves / selective color / color balance are not allowed on presentation shot ?

[FredH]

Sharpen in ps is fine for the presentation shot.

jocs - yup, they are not allowed. The spirit of the presentation shot is, it should look as natural as possible. The texture sheets should easily be seen without any further mods in colors in ps or a game engine. I am sure people will still use what you said, but they will not abuse it.

[Parnell]

Thanks Fred!
B

[jocz]

thanks a lot :thumb:

[Oddin]

I have a question about the team logo. Your character has to have it on somewhere, and I get that. My question is how clearly should it be visible in your shots?
I basically messed up and put it on his shoulders, but none of my planned renders is showing any of the shoulders clearly.
Should I add it somewhere else where it's more clearly visible, or am I fine like this?
I'm guessing the whole point of team logo is so a person watching your entry can immediately know what team you're on... and I missed it by a mile, but I'd still like a confirmation :paper:

[Aftermath]

Oddin: Put it somewhere visible please.

[Oddin]

Will do sir

-- off to figure out where --

[BiG ToE]

could also slap some team colors on there instead. Then you won't have to worry about if we see the logo or not.

[Vig]

maybe the good way will be to have a presentation shot in REALTIME (max/maya viewport/marmoset/xnormal/ue3 etc), without post,
and a beauty shot rendered with any kind of render and post,
but I know this is not the point :lucky:
Sharpen in ps is fine for the presentation shot.

jocs - yup, they are not allowed. The spirit of the presentation shot is, it should look as natural as possible. The texture sheets should easily be seen without any further mods in colors in ps or a game engine. I am sure people will still use what you said, but they will not abuse it.

Does this mean that realtime DirectX viewport shaders or realtime viewport lights/shadows shouldn't be used in the presentation shot? The way its worded sounds like if you can capture it with PrintScreen and its running in the viewport its a go?

I ask because its possible with some shaders which only render in the viewport (will not render offline and are not post effects) to add glow and falloff which could obscure the material some what and might be counter productive to the spirit of the shot.

[jocz]

Fred was not answering to that post,

you can render your presentation shot with any shader/lighting setup/engine you want. BUT, no post effects, like glow with photoshop or rendering post effects with your 3D package.
by glow, we understand the halo post effects, and not the self illum effect (which is allowed of course),
you can still fake it with a plane alpha mapped

[Vig]

Ahh gotcha.

I was thinking specifically of ShaderFX (http://www.lumonix.net/Media/ShaderFX_glowMaterial.html) which glows in a bloomy way but is running in the viewport in realtime at 60fps+ easily worked on, captured with printscreen, it won't render and isn't a post effect, just looks like it.

I'm pretty sure the same effect can be done in other apps and in other ways without shaderFX, all it really does is provide a way to build complex viewport/realtime DX shaders in a quick graphical way.

It's probably a good idea to leave this kind of shader out of the shot because it could be confusing and might get an entry bounced because of a misunderstanding?

[Bal]

The Xnormal glow is bloomy too, realtime, guess that's not allowed on the presentation shot either? =(

Simpler question now. =)

The rules state : "All images must include text that indicates your character's race, class, your contact details, Dominance War IV logo and your team logo."

Is it really necessary to add the race and class of your char to all the images? I think in previous DWs it was only on the presentation shot, and that seemed better. Throwing all that text and logos everywhere sure makes for some crowded shots.

[Mike_K]

Are we allowed to do really basic drawings for our text entry? I had an idea of putting icons like you might have in-game or in the manual with text next to them to describe. They'd only be ickle thumbnail sized drawings :P

[kenter]

Please can anyone tell me were i can copy the dominance war logo???:brick:

I want to send in my threat, but it's incomplete without the logo..

regards kenter

[slebbo]

Might be a noob question, but am I allowed to just printscreen in Maya viewport and use that as my presentation shot?

[BiG ToE]

yeah, that's fine.

[Aftermath]

Please can anyone tell me were i can copy the dominance war logo???:brick:

I want to send in my threat, but it's incomplete without the logo..

regards kenter

Sticky in the dominance war area has the logo.

[Blenderhead]

yeah, that's fine.

Where do we report a case of cheating, and will we get banned if we report it? :phew:

[BiG ToE]

Where do we report a case of cheating, and will we get banned if we report it? :phew:

you would need to have real proof and not just a bad attitude towards the person in question, you would also need to contact the person(s) incharge of the forum and not the member in question. Digital stalking will not be allowed. Last but not least, you can't be a butthead on every forum you registar with.

If any of these simple and easy to follow rules are broken, you will be hit with a bann hammer. :thumb:

Is there someone you would like us to look at? Someone you want added to the DQ'ed list.

[Blenderhead]

I'm just pulling your chain BigToe ;) And what you call 'digital stalking' i.e. a pm, is surely better than publicly black-balling him in his own thread, so I hope you appreciate my courtesy. ;) You know who to look at and have been given ample evidence. :)

[gkaine]

quick question, i skimmed through the thread but did not see this,
can we flip the aspect ratio to 1000h x 1200 w if needed?
also, can we put more then just front and back in the presentation shot?

[DreameR]

~ gKaine. The rules say nothing about the aspect ratio being changeable. If you meant to ask "can we change the ratio to 1000w x 1200h?" then I'm pretty certain the answer is no.

And you can use your beauty shot, or construction to show other views, but presentation shots must stick to the rules of having only front and back view.

[gkaine]

thanks!, i was just wondering because it doesnt say only, it just says you must show front and back view. if one slightly obscures the other is this ok?

[SWunnicke]

Hi people. I wondered if the front and back poses in the presentation shot, has to be totally frontal, or if we can rotate the angle a bit to the side. I am asking this becuase my character looks much cooler from a side view.

[nihilicon]

In a related issue on the 2d side can we show larger details of the main illustration on our main illustration sheet alongside the actual illustration itself? The reason I ask is that I'm obviously working at much higher res. and some of the subtleties get lost when reducing size. I thought it would be cool to show some close up areas alongside on the main sheet from the higher res render.

[kenter]

Sticky in the dominance war area has the logo.

thanks, i found it on the cghub page somewhere

[FrozZT]

Is it ok to desaturate the dominance war IV logo? It really grabs alot of attention..

[jocz]

Is it ok to desaturate the dominance war IV logo? It really grabs alot of attention..

yes :approve:

[Blenderhead]

Walrus linked to a site a while back, an international time site. Could be handy in the coming hours. Anyone know the URL?

[nihilicon]

Walrus linked to a site a while back, an international time site. Could be handy in the coming hours. Anyone know the URL?

Don't know what one Walrus posted but here's the one I use:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/eastern-time/

[worldmaker]

hi guys....
i have a question. Can i use FumeFX in 3d max in order to create a Presentation frame? I think it is not a post processing because of my light in scene depend of this source...

[walrus]

I can guarantee that MY site has cheesier sound effects!
http://timeticker.com/
It's certainly not the best site, it just has the virtue of a easily-memorable URL.

But you don't even have to leave this site. On the page where you submit your final images -
(http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/dw/4/join_2d.html) -
There's a little time ticker on the left side showing you time left 'til close. ~22 hours, as of this post.

[Mogster]

bloody hell >.< no time left need to complete my turn arounds... moving powercuts etc really dont help.

[Blenderhead]

Yeah I had a few hiccups towards the end as well Mogster...we've still got loads of time though, right? Submission is at midnight...or is it midday?

[Mogster]

bloody well hope its midnight or im screeeeewed!

[Joey Spijkers]

Question:

Can I include incoming bullets in either the pedestal or the character?

[jocz]

this is midnight guys !
just look at the time left on the submit page : http://www.gameartisans.org/contests/dw/4/competition/index_1.html

[Blenderhead]

That link sends me to the forum front page...how much is left exactly jocz?

[jocz]

That link sends me to the forum front page...how much is left exactly jocz?

Time Remaining:
0.13.5.31

[walrus]

Then follow the link I posted just a few entries earlier. Time left 'til deadline: 11 and a half hours.

[Blenderhead]

Jocz you scared me. Did you mean to say that the deadline was midnight? lol I thought it was midnight in the states at the time. :D

[bin]

last year i remember there,s so many participant upload all of their finals but forgot to hit "submit final" button. assume they already submit their final.
so Fred has to extend the deadline another day to have them fix it/submit it correctly ( if i remember correctly ).

soo. can we have list of submitted entries now? :paper:

[BiG ToE]

well, if you want to know if your entry went threw, go to your edit page, on the left side is a view final entry. If you hit that, and nothing shows up. You didn't do it right. If that happens, hit the submit button, then on the next page, hit it again.

[jocz]

Jocz you scared me. Did you mean to say that the deadline was midnight? lol I thought it was midnight in the states at the time. :D

yep midnight EST, this is like 5 in GMT for us =)

[Blenderhead]

Dunno if I'll be able to finish...this laptop is on her last legs. Damn. :(

[sinz]

Dito blenderhead it's a sad day indeed for me I was trying really hard too, dang! Hope to finish.

[nihilicon]

What's the story with the uploading?

select * from compet_users_nvs, compet_users_details_nvs where compet_users_nvs.user_id=4445 and compet_users_nvs.compet_u_id=compet_users_details_nvs.compet_u_id and compet_users_nvs.compet_id='42' and compet_users_nvs.cat_id='2' order by compet_users_details_nvs.compet_u_d_id asc
There was an error. Please contact the administrator.
=> .. Sorry

I've been trying to upload for the past hour with no joy - will be able to submit later today?

[FredH]

Keep trying till it works. 200 users are submitting work at same time, so this is causing problems. Just keep doing what you are doing over and over again until it works:)

If problem still persists and 20 tries, let me know via pm. I extended the deadline to insure everyone gets their entry in some time tonight.

~ Fred

[nihilicon]

Nice one Fred, thank you.

[walrus]

Sooooo....
When do we get to find out who the mystery judges are?
When does the second DW mini start?
How many final entries were there?
Who won, and when do we get to know?
Are we there yet? :D

[carotello]

I can't even imagine the TASK of going through all those entries and then judging them, all being so different, and so many being so awesome.
The mere thought makes my head spin, so I am expecting results to take a while. Am I right?

[BiG ToE]

you are right.

[jocz]

Resuslts are in june !
But as Walrus said, I'm curious how many finished entries we have this year :approve:

[ninjastic]

i dont care how long it takes but it would be nice to know

[Ksan]

You will never know. Ever. They are burning all of it, ALL OF IT I SAY !!!! :mad:

Nah, they are on it for sure. It is an enormous task, but it will happen. Fred and the crew have never let us down yet, so patience grasshopper :cool: (be cool)

[Blenderhead]

I can imagine the job gets even tougher when they get down to the last ten finalists or so...coming to a decision as to who places 1st/2nd/3rd.

[Revliss]

ok now went is the last mini contest for Dwar this year going to start ?

[DreameR]

~ Yeah a rough date on the judging announcements would be great please. A 2second estimation would be fine.

[Razvan-Sedekiah]

I'd mostly like to know when the mini-challenge will start so I can make sure to keep some time free for it. ^___^

[walrus]

The Dominance War #2 Mini-Challenge has begun!
The brief version of the brief (from dominancewar.com):

Mini Challenge #2 Begins!
Dominance War IV's Final mini challenge - War General Pet Portraits - has started! While we wait for jugdes, you now have until June 1st to create a sculpture or painting of a pet fit for a war general. What you create and how you create it, we leave up to you. Good luck to all those who enter this final mini challenge in the DW IV series!

I can't find the longer brief of the site, but I did find it, strangely enough, at CGTalk. Here's the link. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=282&t=766264)

Of course, I already have a question about the rules:
The directions shown on CGtalk seem to be the rules for just the 3D sculpting half of the contest. But the paragraph from the official DW site says painting a portrait is allowed too. Do the paintings have to be a single color, too?

but anyhow, thought folks would like to know. So GET BACK TO WORK, you lazy bums! :D

[Razvan-Sedekiah]

Pets!! O__o; Arg... gotta think up something....


Walrus- Aye! Aye! Captain Walrus! Back to work with me! XD

[Razvan-Sedekiah]

OH!! !here is the 2D thread!!!
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=282&t=766565

[BiG ToE]

everyone started at the same time.