selling models over the internet

[artist_cg]

hey guys , i just wanted to know about selling models over the internet , is it worth the effort ? i see lots of sites that allow u to sell ur own models , and i thought to give it a shot , but i wanted to know if anyone had tried it before ? and whats the most wanted models ? vehicles ? characters ? , thanks for ur time :)

[Cunipshun]

funny story about this...
long time ago when i first joined GA i posted a thread about this....
it depends on certain things like:

1.how much the the domain will take from wat u make
(ex: say that u sell a product for $50 and the "domain site" takes 50% everytime someone buys ur product and ur stuck with $25) some sites i kno do this im not sure about all.

2.wat ur selling....it can't be TOO specific, sometimes it can be...
but by specific, lets say i made a certain model from a contest on a certain site (like the DW for instance)and i deicide to sell it...
it may not make as much as the guy who's selling a bundle pack of low-poly, game ready, medeival weapons, but take a look at this (http://www.Turbosquid.com) and look how generally categorized it is

3.if you're consistent in making the models in all types of variety(chars,props, levels,vehicles) this will improve you greatly, but only that depends on the time and will you put into it, especially with time because "life" may be in the way, or knocking at your door

so what i think sells the most are practical things that people dont wanna or have the time to make themselves for certain projects etc. (chars,weapons,vehicles,PROPS in general, like barrels) regardless of quality, buyers really want the meaning of a MODEL DIRECTORY

EDIT:and making the price is really up to you

[cookepuss]

IMO, selling models is a tough biz. It falls into the same category of ventures as being an indie plugin developer.

First, suppose you spend a regular 40 hour week making a car model. Now, suppose that your time is worth a modest $25/hr which is a $52k/yr salary.

That means that your man hours were worth $1,000.

At TurboSquid, for example, a car model can sell for as much as $500. However, the average is closer to $50-$100.

If your car is super mega ultra must-have then you can sell it for $500. You can break even with just 2 models. Just know that this higher price bracket limits your audience and sales potential.

To reach a wider audience and open up your sales potential, you'll have to price it lower. So, if you sell your car model at $75 then you'll have to sell 14 of them to barely break even.

This is why I equate it with being an independent plugin developer. You can either sell it at a high price and expect low volume sales or sell it at a low price and attract a broader audience. In both cases, the money you make doesn't always equal the time you spend.

Breaking even is the best you can actually hope for in some cases, especially as the complexity of the product for sale increases.

The fact is, you don't have the same marketing muscle as an Adobe or Autodesk. To get a fair number of sales, you'll have to do a lot of marketing yourself - beyond links, banner exchanges, and other basic tactics. This equals more man hours which, in turn, raises the number of sales you'd need to make to break even.

Selling models at a low cost comes with some other disadvantages.

The most obvious is that you could end up selling only a couple of models and your sales dry up immediately.

The less obvious issue is one of rights. In spite of you clearly selling customers a license to use your models, some may never give you credit. In fact, some may even take full credit. Worse still, some may resell it and make more money where you did not.

Recouping that money lost due to IP infringement could be near impossible, especially if your sales were made to an overseas customer. Even if you could successfully sue, the amount of money spent on the legalities would outweigh the amount of the suit.

Just stuff to think about.

Personally, I think that you'd make more money doing contract modeling or image creation instead. At least that way you get paid for your hours and maybe even make a profit.

Also, you may still run the risk with IP infringement if you just sell the final images alone, but at least you've really got only one party to contend with. With a for-sale item, you could end up sending cease and desist letters every time the model pops up where it's not supposed to.

[artist_cg]

thanks for the feedback guys , sounds like its not worth the effort , but thanks for the ideas :)

[Mrpearlzildjian]

Like they said, you have to sell very practical stuff to make any money. Stuff that indy studios and small projects and medical schools would buy. Like say a medical school needed a 3D skeleton for a presentation. They would rather buy it outright than hire a freelance guy to make it, simply because it would save them both time and money. It is tough to sell models, because not everyones gonna be looking for a "Demon Prince Frog with a Trident and seahorses bundle package" :P. You get what I mean I'm sure.

Do like the rest of us and try and get a job in the industry before you go sellin' anything. lol

[artist_cg]

guys i think i'll forget about the selling thing , and focus on making a good demoreel :D

[Cunipshun]

best demoreel music=Jason Mraz :D

[Mestophales]

Well....for me, I make several hundred a month off of maybe 3 0r 4 models that I have out there, I very rarely make anything from Turbosquid. I build my models specifically for use in Poser or DAZ Studio (Which is a free download). The Poser community is over 500k strong and there is always a demand for new things from original characters to clothing and accessories. Rigging is very similar to MAX. The fun part is your poly budget is higher the average quality model for Poser will be between 60k and 120k. So you get to have plenty of detail.

As for brokering - well yes the typical site will charge you 50% so you make your price $25 they get $12.50, but the bright side is - they handle the marketing and most of the time the customer support.

For example of all the sites, from DAZ3D, to Renderosity, I get far much more support and advertising with Smith Micro's Content Paradise.

I know of several vendors that make 75k per year or better at those sites, so is it worth it.....yep it is.

If you need help or just want to know more about it contact me

[cookepuss]

Well....for me, I make several hundred a month off of maybe 3 0r 4 models that I have out there, I very rarely make anything from Turbosquid. I build my models specifically for use in Poser or DAZ Studio
The question is whether or not what you take in balances out how much you potentially lose.

Models specifically built for Poser & DAZ are among the most frequently pirated CG assets on the internet. I can pretty much guarantee you that every legitimately purchased Poser/DAZ model will get downloaded as a bootleg 100x or more. You may be earning several hundred bucks a month in sales, but you may be losing out on $1k+ to leeches in that same exact period.

Poser & DAZ models sell well because they're in high demand. Because they're in high demand, they're an easy warezer target. It's a catch-22. You can't have the high without the low. Everybody wants the fame and the glory, but there's a price you pay.

It's the same thing with programs like Maya. So many people know the app. How many legit licenses actually exist? It's not a 1:1 ratio. That's for sure.

I get far much more support and advertising with Smith Micro's Content Paradise.
Anybody who's been in the loop for a while knows that Smith Micro's reputation certainly precedes them.

I know of several vendors that make 75k per year or better at those sites, so is it worth it.....yep it is.
To put this in perspective, though, they very likely do not represent the majority. Just as you know people with some cheery success stories, I too know people with the most amazing horror stories.

As they say on TV, "Results may vary." :p

(Quality isn't always a strong enough indicator of sales potential either.)
If you need help or just want to know more about it contact me
Probably a sound idea. I think that anybody interested in doing this type of biz should get a balanced set of testimonials. It's important to go into something like this with your eyes open about both the positive and the negative.

[Mestophales]

I totally agree about the pirated models, but the sheer fact is for every model period that is sold you can find a warez torrent for it somewhere. It is definitely one of those things you have to realize exists and understand if people are downloading the torrents the odds are high they never would have bought anyway.

It is definitely true tha the few people I know that make 75k per year are definitely the exception to the rule, they biuild very nich things for very in demand models.

Quality is never a true inidcator of sales potential that is why you MUST check the marketplace and see what the hot selling items are....that is a good indicator if your product will sell.

There is no such thing as a one stop answer or a get rich quick tip for everything you do. However I know from my experience that a few hours here & there building models you want to build and then selling them as Poser / DAZ Studio models can make enough to make your car payment, but you have to stay on top of it, participating in the marketplace sales, advertising, and a lot of giveaway's for people to do renders with which in turn gets people asking "Where can I get that model?"

You have to run it like a business, and the reason I brought it up is too many guys get stuck in the frame of mind that I only want to build game models which is fine but don't rule out the Poser / DAZ Studio community.

For those who only want to make game models - try selling your models as art assetts on the GarageGames.com market, or Reallusions iClone.

If you want to make recurring revenue these are some good ideas, but be informed and do your homework - even make sure you have a copyright attorney on retainer.....better to have one and not need one than to need one and not have one.

[Mestophales]

Oh - one more food for thought

How much you make vs what you are potentially losing.......an interesting concept but if companies like Microsoft, Autodesk and the like can't stop the pirating and yet still make a profit, what do you think can happen for you.

I just wanted to reiterate that you can never stop the pirating, but the reality that would very likely never impact your bottom line.

DAZ3D has tried embedding DLL's into the obj files, I may look into this idea further but there are workarounds if you are worried about losing money to pirates.

The Poser community is a pretty tight knit group - the artists will usually contact you if they think someone is stealing your stuff.....again this is just my experience.

[cookepuss]

an interesting concept but if companies like Microsoft, Autodesk and the like can't stop the pirating and yet still make a profit, what do you think can happen for you.
The sales & profit structure is different for the likes of a Autodesk than Joe Schmoe. I sincerely doubt that Autodesk says, "YES!!! John bought a single user license!" Now, if they seat a whole studio, that's different.

Autodesk makes money on individual sales to be sure, but that's only part of the game. Plus, they have their users by the balls when it comes to stuff like subscriptions, support, and upgrades. J. Joe Schmuck has no such infrastructure in place.

The ways in which individuals and companies earn profit in a climate of piracy are two wholly different things.

I just wanted to reiterate that you can never stop the pirating, but the reality that would very likely never impact your bottom line.
Not to push any buttons or disrespect you, but that's kinda... crap. Okay. Maybe "crap" too strong of a word, but what you said is far too much of a blanket statement to accept as fact

Sure. You can never stop piracy. That's a given. It's been going on since day one. However, to suggest that it'll never impact your bottom line is kinda naive. The goods may be digital, but the loss is as credible.

Just today, I saw copyrighted models that were NOT bought used in a high profile Hollywood production. To say that this didn't impact the impact the original content creators is insane. The pirates made money by using the model in a production. They made money by using a product they didn't pay for. The artist wasn't compensated. If that isn't screwing the original artist or taking food out of his mouth then I don't know what is.

The tangible losses may shift to intangible losses once your recoup development costs, but the losses are still there. One of the most common misconceptions in modern content distribution is that losses from digital distribution aren't as valid as those from material distribution.

If that were truly the case, there would be no reason for the DMCA to exist or the MPAA & RIAA to get sue happy. More over, developers would take fewer precautions when it came to activation, homesite defense, an distribution specifics. The fact that all of this does happen merely validates the digital distribution method as a valuable part of the bottom line.

The Poser community is a pretty tight knit group - the artists will usually contact you if they think someone is stealing your stuff.....again this is just my experience.

Yeah, but P2P changes the ballgame entirely. It's easier to offer up a simple cease & desist warning when your piracy distribution channel is centralized. A decentralized network means that chasing every guy is tough and maybe even impossible, thanks to ISPs and their desire not to narc on the offenders without a court order - thereby circumventing privacy issues.


It's a REALLY complex issue. Personally, I'd much rather that this thread not get into anything so ugly as the internet's underbelly. It's just counterproductive.

Besides, I busted my wrist 3 weeks ago and getting too deep into any thread debate hurts like a b***h, atm. :)

[Mestophales]

I concede the fact that piracy hurts, again I am just stating my opinions. I would much rather debate the piracy thing instead of hearing that selling your models online as poser models is not viable.

I have run into a lot of people who scoff at the mere idea because they are uninformed.

Just like any business there will always be pros and cons and you cookepuss are a person well informed.

[mr_ace]

as far as i can determine, the answer to this thread in respect to the original question of is it worth the effort is yes. if you're making the models anyway, then why not make money from it for minimal extra effort. piracy is irrelevant. whether it affects the amount of money you get at the end of the day doesnt change the fact that its still possible to make money from your assets.
this threads is of particular interest to me, as over the next 6 months, ill be working on game assets for my portfolio with no proper income while i look for work, so the possibility of making any money at all from some stuff i make is quite reassuring

[Mestophales]

That was my point where piracy is concerned. I am looking into being able to embed code in the obj files to hinder the efforts of pirates.

The bottom line is yes you can make money selling your assetts - you would be surprised at the sheer number of artists who have models sitting on their PC's that could be generating recurring revenue and not just a pretty render for your portfolio.

IMHO it is a stamp to add to your portfolio to state that this model has generated x amount of revenue over the last x amount of time

I tend to outsource on occassion and pay about $500 on average when I do so, so there is always room for custom freelance work as well.

If you would be interested in learning more - shoot me an email and I can help you out.

[mr_ace]

thanks man, that'd b really helpful, tho i won't really be starting doing it till may time, so i'll leave it till then so it's fresher in my memory, so i'll drop u an email closer to the time. cheers

[Mestophales]

No problem anytime

[artist_cg]

hey Mestophales , since i started the thread , can i drop a mail too ?! :D ,
i would love to do some freelance if possible , thanks :cool:

[Mestophales]

hey Mestophales , since i started the thread , can i drop a mail too ?! :D ,
i would love to do some freelance if possible , thanks :cool:

Shoot me an email at mestophales@yahoo.com with the title in the subject line Freelance since I don't want to miss it.

I will fill you in on all you need to know and what you will need to do to maximize your potential sales.

Talk to you soon

[artist_cg]

thanks man , i already did ;)

[[*AP*]Twin]

If you don't mind I think i may be sending you an email here shortly mestophales :)

[DennisVR]

Have a look at www.digitalelements.be No commissions, no fees, money directly transfered from buyer to your own PayPal account.

It doesn't have the same visibility as Turbosquid but if you pimp your models it works out fine.

[artist_cg]

thanks for the link , seems like i'll give it a shot :D