Carlos Martí - A 17th Century Aristocrat

[Swisher]

Hey guys, this is my first post here. I just finished my 2nd male model with my first attempt at clothing. 10 weeks or so of work on this guy. Let me know what you think. I'm taking it into Zbrush for the normal maps. Thanks

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/Cgtalkpost_final2.jpg

[Deto]

Looking very nice, Swisher :) Awesome detail already!

There's two things that sort of poke in my eye.. First one is the boots, they look a bit too cowboyish to me.. Its the garment thing on the bottom I think. But anyways.. The second is the collar thing coming from under his err undershirt (the leathery thing with buttons), I think it would look better if the bottom of the V (the part coming out) would instead go under the undershirt thing? Now it looks bit like it doesn't belong there. But then again, I have no idea what 17th century aristocrat looks like ;)

[Swisher]

Thanks for the critique Deto. Yeah, I'll tweak out the boots a bit more to make them more formal wear than wild wild west. As for the ruffles coming out of the chest area, I was thinking of creating a basic mesh and do the majority of the sculpting in Zbrush; I know I can do better though and I will rework that area as well. Thanks again for the compliments and comments, they go a long way :). Good luck to you on your projects. I will post updates on this thread as they come.

[Deto]

Good to hear they were of some use :D

Thank you and good luck with yours too! While waiting for updates... ;)

[Marcus Dublin]

Welcome to the boards Swisher, this guys looks like an interesting project to work on and can be an outstanding portfolio piece when all said and done. One thing that jumps out at me though is the area around the eyes. His eyeballs don’t look like they fit into his eye sockets properly. I think you should take a look at the head reference I posted to see what I mean. Good luck and keep us posted!:thumb:

[Swisher]

Thanks for your critique Marcus. I've looked up some of your work and it is very impressive; clean models with outstanding textures. I totally see what you're pointing out now, the eyeball sits in the socket whereas my eyeball is almost buldging out and looks very unnatural. I'll definately rework that area so that it looks like the eyeball is nestled in that socket. I do have a question for you Marcus. With these sort of tweaking changes, such as buldging the socket out or tweaking cheeks, lips, so on and so forth; would it be better to tweak the mesh in XSI then sculpt the final version? Or take it into Zbrush and do the changes there? I ask this because I've just started playing with ZBrush and I'm not sure how far to take a model before sending it to the sculpting program.

Thanks
Nelson

[Marcus Dublin]

Swisher: I do have a question for you Marcus. With these sort of tweaking changes, such as buldging the socket out or tweaking cheeks, lips, so on and so forth; would it be better to tweak the mesh in XSI then sculpt the final version? Or take it into Zbrush and do the changes there? I ask this because I've just started playing with ZBrush and I'm not sure how far to take a model before sending it to the sculpting program.

Marcus: While you can always make adjustments like these in either Zbrush or Mudbox I would always stress making you're base mesh as solid as possible. There's a couple of reasons for this, first you never know when you'll use the existing base mesh for something else and it's better to get it right the first time. On top of that it's always good to have your proportions worked out before taking it into a sculpting app, especially if you're still new to certain work flows and techniques, why build on bad fundamentals;). In the end depending on the detail in your final sculpt you may have to retoplogize the highres so it's good to know how things fit together, if not you'll make the same mistakes as you would have in your base mesh. By the way some artist like to make there base mesh pretty close to the final sculpt proportions and only sculpt in the detail they need, other artist though prefer to take a scrap model and go nuts in their sculpting app to achieve the final results. This of course depends on the workflow you favor and the final look your going for, I would try both though just to get a good feel on the overall process. Good luck Swisher and feel free to post updates and any other questions you may have.:)

[Swisher]

Thanks for the advice Marcus. Yea I'm going to go with tweaking the head as much as I can in XSI before sculpting it. I will try the other workflows as soon as I'm more comfortable with Zbrush. I've only done a little bit of tweaking since I first posted; I got sidetracked by another project. But here's a small update with the critiques from you guys and the guys over at cgtalk.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/update22222.jpg

The left side is the original face and the right is the tweaked out area. I still plan on taking it much further and the critiques you guys gave helped a great deal. Thanks again and I'll post when I got something else to show :).

[Marcus Dublin]

The improvements you made defiantly helped get the model back on the right track. The head at least in the smoothed view looks pretty dense and could be taken into Zbrush at this point. Make sure to keep us posted on the models progress Swisher, good luck.

[cookepuss]

Looks very nice. I'm not exactly feeling the weight of the coat just yet, but you're getting there. About the only thing I'd change with the head would be to make that brow a bit more prominent. Marcus' photo nicely illustrates what I mean.

So interesting how the definition of "game art" has changed in such a few short years. The concept of high vs low poly is getting more an more muddy by the day. Hey, I'm not complaining. :)

[Swisher]

Hey guys hows it going? I missed the forums during the maintenence, couldn't get my daily game art fix hehe. Anyways, here's some updates. I took your advice Cookepuss; I pushed out the brow more and I did a bit of tweaking in the area. I also worked on the weight and form of the jacket as a whole.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/WIPpostGA10-3 copy.jpg

I'm asking for your opinions on my technique on the ruffles. A buddy of mine (Nieddameister) suggested a plane with overlapping polys to make the ruffles; I used it and I'm pretty satisfied with the result. I'm still tweaking the area and trying to make the ends fan out more. Trying to make them look loose instead of stiff and rigid.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/WIPpostGA10-3_2.jpg

My reference has a much more closed jacket at the top and the ruffles seem to pop out at an angle; whereas my jacket is more open at the top and exposed making the ruffles pour out (maybe?).

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/clothing16.jpg

All in all after a bit more tweaking here and there, i'm taking this guy into Zbrush for my first full character sculpt. Probably do a low poly version after that and project the normals on :). Best of luck to all you guys, I will keep updating.

[cookepuss]

I'd take a poly count on your ruffle fake. With the density you have there, you might not be too far off from a spline sweep. Not exactly sure you'll get the look you want with those overlays either.

[Swisher]

Yeah, I think I'm overlaying too much. Probably should alternate overlaying and something different because it's not looking natural to me. Hey cookepuss, what is a spline sweep exactly? I'm using XSI at the moment and it calls splines curves, so i've been looking around and I can't really find out what it is. Doing some research on the internet too but it has turned up nothing but nurbs and some weird stuff. Thanks for the help :)

[Swisher]

Here's an update to the fencer. I've just started sculpting today. Still very much a WIP. Crits welcome

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/zbrushSS2.jpg

[Swisher]

Did a bit of work today, reimported the high mesh into XSI to check perspective and what not. Did a little side by side comparison and omg i love zbrush :).

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/WIP_SS4.jpg

[Swisher]

Here's an update with a quick skin shader. I'm having some trouble with the pole in the upper lip area; probably just going to give him facial hair. Crits welcome

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk110/nelsonizq/WIP_SS5.jpg

[butt_sahib]

Looks excellent mate.
Though i would suggest not relying on zb to fix some anatomical errors every time. Learn what you did in zb and apply that on your model in XSI

[butt_sahib]

Looks excellent mate
However, i would suggest that you should rely on zb to fix youre anatomical problems. Learn what you did wrong and how you fixed it in zb and apply THAT into XSi :D

[Ramseus]

The head's looking great now. Plus what butt_sahib said.

[Swisher]

Thanks for the comments guys. Yea this is my first character sculpt in Zbrush and already it has supplemented my knowledge for planar modeling later. It has really helped me develop form so that my next model will have none of the flaws this one initially had. I'm going to start the detailing phase now and add wrinkles and what not. Thanks again guys and good luck to you on your projects.

[coupes.]

You can toggle perspective on and off by pressing "P" in Zbrush. You can also toggle it or adjust the FOV in the "Draw" palette if I'm not mistaken.

Good start on the sculpt BTW.