Learning the ropes

[Inkfish]

Hello all!

I'm really new to the 3d-modelling scene, i have been trying to improve my skills by reading the wonderful tutorials, and doing modelling on my free time, and i tought it would be a good idea to register here and ask you guys to help me improve (and give help if i can :) ) The software i use is MAX 9.0 and Z-brush 3.1.


I have some background in art, mostly with traditional media, but i have been using computer for some while. If you'd like to see my 2d stuff please visit http://www.aavat.com that's my portfolio site (that could use some updating...

Without further blabbering here's what i have done so far starting from the most recent:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/alienhead.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/alienhead_front1.png
Alien hear, constructed from Z-spheres, and textured with polypaint

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/batboy.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/batboy11.png
Batboy, used the base mesh provided with Z-Brush 3.1 and modelled and polypainted in z-brush. I added the head to a photograph for laughs. (I didn't take that picture)

(cont'd)

[Inkfish]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/bodyfromnt.jpg
i tried the Jean D'Arc tutorial, but i lost all the files with a computer crash so i couldn't finish.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/p.png
[i] Yeah, that didn't go that well :))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/orkish.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/orkhead.png
[i]Basemesh done in mudbox, further developed in Z-brush.)

Here you go, sorry for the lenghty first post :)

[Marcus Dublin]

Welcome to Game Artisans Inkfish and thanks for sharing your artwork with us. It's cool to see that you're having some fun with the tools set at hand, you've definitely started out with some beautifully strange and interesting pieces! I checked out your site and I really like the work you have displayed, I guess with some more practice your traditional work will style will translate even better into 3d. Thanks again for sharing and keep em coming!:)

[Inkfish]

Welcome to Game Artisans Inkfish and thanks for sharing your artwork with us. It's cool to see that you're having some fun with the tools set at hand, you've definitely started out with some beautifully strange and interesting pieces! I checked out your site and I really like the work you have displayed, I guess with some more practice your traditional work will style will translate even better into 3d. Thanks again for sharing and keep em coming!:)

Thank you for the kind words Marcus, there is so much to learn, and so little time but the process is really fun! (well maybe the uv-unwrapping and getting to wrap your head around normal maps and the like is not so fun but...;))

Here is a recent picture that started in Z-brush and after some hours modelling was brought to photoshop. I GIS'ed the background, but cannot remember where i got it from for the life of me...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/creature.png

[cookepuss]

That last one looks fun. A bit hazy, but fun.

The others show lots of issues with basic anatomy an symmetry. Still, its good to see that you're picking things up as well as you are.

[Inkfish]

That last one looks fun. A bit hazy, but fun.

The others show lots of issues with basic anatomy an symmetry. Still, its good to see that you're picking things up as well as you are.

Hey there cookepuss, thanks man :) i was going for a "depth of field" thing there :)

Thanks for the heads up on the anatomy, i'll try to keep proportions in mind and have some ref handy, but it's easy to get carried away.

Here's something from today, a unfinished head of an older lady, lot's to do still
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/womanhead.png

[cookepuss]

i tried the Jean D'Arc tutorial, but i lost all the files with a computer crash so i couldn't finish.
You didn't miss anything. The tutorial, though great to get you up and running quickly, is pretty short sighted and overrated. An experienced CG character artist will be quick to point out the inherent importance of topology. Simulating the flow of the musculature (http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/tutorial/edge_loop.jpg) can not only make your characters easier to animate with fewer polys, but also make high poly sculpting more more pleasant down the line. Same goes for the face.

i was going for a "depth of field" thing there
Photoshop fake, eh? I'd have use z-depth over true DOF. Faking using PS alone might be dirtier and take longer. It'd also account for that desert haze look.

Here's something from today, a unfinished head of an older lady, lot's to do still
Yeah. It's not a bad start. Still some oddities with the skull shape and the wrinkles.

Are you starting with a poly base mesh or sculpting using ZB from the onset? I only ask because I see that the ears aren't on yet and some of the proportioing doesn't seem fully tweaked. It suggests a pure sculpt to me.

Personally, I'd have worked out the underlying mesh in my 3D program (Cinema4D) before ever taking it to the detailing phase in something like ZBrush or Silo2.

[Inkfish]

You didn't miss anything. The tutorial, though great to get you up and running quickly, is pretty short sighted and overrated. An experienced CG character artist will be quick to point out the inherent importance of topology. Simulating the flow of the musculature (http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/tutorial/edge_loop.jpg) can not only make your characters easier to animate with fewer polys, but also make high poly sculpting more more pleasant down the line. Same goes for the face.


Photoshop fake, eh? I'd have use z-depth over true DOF. Faking using PS alone might be dirtier and take longer. It'd also account for that desert haze look.


Yeah. It's not a bad start. Still some oddities with the skull shape and the wrinkles.

Are you starting with a poly base mesh or sculpting using ZB from the onset? I only ask because I see that the ears aren't on yet and some of the proportioing doesn't seem fully tweaked. It suggests a pure sculpt to me.

Personally, I'd have worked out the underlying mesh in my 3D program (Cinema4D) before ever taking it to the detailing phase in something like ZBrush or Silo2.

Hey man, thanks for the good advice! i checked the link you pointed and it looked like good stuff, if you have similarly good references to show i'd be really grateful.

You are right, I used the easy way out with ps, i never realised about the z-depth option in the rendering panel, i have to experiment. The desert is straight from a GIS, and added later.

With the sculpt i began with a uv-mapped lowpoly made i max. The ears missing was purely a mistake, since i planned on giving her a scarf over her head and was lazy.

Here is the current version, i used the z-brush default skin shader and desaturated it a bit with max. Further sculpting was done also
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/grannyheadt_saturation.png

[cookepuss]

Hey man, thanks for the good advice! i checked the link you pointed and it looked like good stuff, if you have similarly good references to show i'd be really grateful.

Not sure if you're willing to buy a tutorial DVD, but this one is pretty good. It puts some of that edge stuff into practice. It's a better modeling tutorial than the Joan one too.

http://www.kurvstudios.com/nevercenter_silo/character_modeling.php

Here's a handful of wire renders from some cartoony character base (unclothed/wigged) meshes. This is for a project I'm doing in my spare time.

1 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/buck_wire_001.jpg) 2 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/mickey_wire_001.jpg) 3 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/donnie_wire_001.jpg) 4 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/mickey_head_001.jpg) 5 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/donnie_head_001.jpg) 6 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/buck_head_001.jpg) 7 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/head.jpg)

Obviously, the type of detail I'm going for is much simpler & stylized, but the basic ideas of loops remains the same, even with the head. The loops for the face are more or less universal. Most people use the same ones. The body is a bit more flexible. Some people use more loops. Some use fewer. For something like this, I'm more concerned with functional instead of realistic.

Basically, I worry about a couple of key loops and ignore the rest, unless they're really necessary to deformation. For me, on the body, the key ones are really by the shoulders, since they're just a b***h to deform & rig. A decent shoulder/peck loop can really make things a lot easier in the long run.

I forgot to mark off the loops around the mouth for you, but they're there. That's a key area to do, which is why I start there when laying out my vertices. The mouth won't deform properly unless those edges/polys run in a loop.

This 3dtotal.com tutorial on mouths explains exactly this.

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/mouth_tutorial/mouth.asp

Here's one on noses:

http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/nose_tutorial/nose.asp

It might just be easier to sculpt this stuff in ZB to start with, but you end up wasting a lot more polys since each subdivision boosts your count dramatically.

To get a good handle of what the loops should look like, in a real body, just use an anatomy book or some body builder pics. You can pretty easily trace the flow of edges and how they might wrap around the body, if you were to draw such a line. It's not about being accurate or functional on a muscle level, but more on a topological one. You could go accurate on a muscle level, but your base geometry increases, as does the complexity of your loops.

[Inkfish]

Not sure if you're willing to buy a tutorial DVD, but this one is pretty good. It puts some of that edge stuff into practice. It's a better modeling tutorial than the Joan one too.

http://www.kurvstudios.com/nevercenter_silo/character_modeling.php

Here's a handful of wire renders from some cartoony character base (unclothed/wigged) meshes. This is for a project I'm doing in my spare time.

[b]1 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/buck_wire_001.jpg) 2 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/mickey_wire_001.jpg) 3 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/donnie_wire_001.jpg) 4 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/mickey_head_001.jpg) 5 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/donnie_head_001.jpg) 6 (http://www.robertsanta.com/wipsforboards/buck_head_001.jpg) http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/nose_tutorial/nose.asp (http://www.robertsanta)

[url)

It might just be easier to sculpt this stuff in ZB to start with, but you end up wasting a lot more polys since each subdivision boosts your count dramatically.

To get a good handle of what the loops should look like, in a real body, just use an anatomy book or some body builder pics. You can pretty easily trace the flow of edges and how they might wrap around the body, if you were to draw such a line. It's not about being accurate or functional on a muscle level, but more on a topological one. You could go accurate on a muscle level, but your base geometry increases, as does the complexity of your loops.


Thank you for a really informative post Cookepuss. I am willing to spend money on a instructional DVD, before i was contemplating on buying
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo01.html,
but would you recomend starting out with something less complex? the link you posted looks good too.

And thanks for the really insightful toughts on edgeloops, and the good reference images you provided. Before reading that my lowpoly models were usually really heavy (i can post some wires if you would like to have a good laugh :) The topology subject is something i ought to be learning, thanks for the good advice on that!

Here is a quick concept sculpt with some photoshop elements, tried to learn how to use the zspheres
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/yrthak.png

[Deto]

That's very impressive bird you got there, Inkfish. I like it alot :)

[cookepuss]

Thank you for a really informative post Cookepuss. I am willing to spend money on a instructional DVD, before i was contemplating on buying
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo01.html,
That's a very good one. It is a bit complex if you're not too familiar with basic character workflow. Kinda overkill right now. It does assume that you know something about the topic since it doesn't hold your hand at every step of the way. However, it covers quite a bit in the way of detailing, clothing, and retopologizing. Just be prepared. 7/2 hours seems like a lot of time, but it really isn't. For what the artist covers, he moves at a rather quick pace and skips steps now and then. I would recommend that you get this DVD, but only when you've got the basics down.

but would you recomend starting out with something less complex? the link you posted looks good too.
Honestly, I would suggest that Silo Character modeling DVD. Never underestimate the value of a simple model. It takes you from the concept sketch all the way to the final model. You get to see how he lays out the loops for the face, the torso, shoulders, buttocks, and so forth. You get to see how he aims to make the model as close to the source image as possible, even making compromises for what 2D stuff doesn't really make sense in a 3D world.

He also address practical concerns, such as modeling areas in certain ways that would keep the animators happy. In reality, areas like the shoulders and crotch need to be a modeled certain way so that they deform well under extreme circumstances. This DVD shows that through some of its careful loop placement, even if it doesn't put it into practice through posing.

The model may be (relatively) simple, but the greatest value to the DVD is in the set of techniques he teaches. You can always translate those things to a much more complex work later on down the road. The DVD's author may be using Silo, but the concepts are all program agnostic. You can use them anywhere.

Like the Gnomon DVD, it is also around 7 or so hours. However, the relative simplicity of the model means that you get to see 99% of the artist's work, even his mistakes and how he fixes them. IMO, that's part of where the real value lies. He's also a pretty good teacher and is easy enough to listen to for a prolonged period of time.

If I could only choose 3 training DVDs, I'd choose the Silo as my introductory lesson and the 2 Gnomon Ian Joyner DVDs - the modeling one you listed and its texturing related companion (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo02.html).

Gnomon DVDs are a tricky thing. Not all Gnomon DVDs are made equal. Not to offend the parties involved, but (frankly) some of them stink. Not much better way to put it. For example: The "Humanoid Modeling" DVD sounds like a good introductory course, but it is so basic and not that well constructed. At 3.5 hours, you pretty much wonder why you paid $60 for it. You can find the same key information elsewhere on the internet and for free.

On the other hand, the Ian Joyner DVDs are worth their weight in gold. If you're an inexperienced character modeler, they may seem a bit over your head. You might have to watch them a couple of times for the info to sink in. However, as you get more into character modeling, you begin to realize how much he crams in in such a small space. The DVD is worth the money because not all of this info is available elsewhere, and certainly not freely. Most of us learned the same things through trial and error. Joyner's DVD can save you some of that trouble.

Here is a quick concept sculpt with some photoshop elements, tried to learn how to use the zspheres

Cool looking concept.

Realistically, there's nothing wrong with ZBrush as a modeling tool. It just promotes backwards thinking if you choose to start at that level. You could always sculpt your character in ZBrush first. You just have to be prepared to retopologize it at a much lower detail level if you ever want to use it for anything other than a still image.

That's why I say that it's a backwards sort of thinking. One typically models the base cage first and then does the detailing second. Starting off in ZB first means that you get to make it look as cool as possible right off the bat. The downside is that you'll have to look later on for ways to make that detail stand out in a much lower poly control cage. You've got to think out all of those topology details after you've already dropped them in.

In some ways, it's easier to squeeze in 4 million polys worth of detail once you have your 4,000 poly model in place. It's a bit harder trying to figure out how to get your 4 million poly model down to 4,000 polys. The first way involves thinking about the shape and form immediately. The second way involves thinking in terms of sacrifice - what needs to go in order to preserve the overall form. Also, your sculpting ability really has to be top notch if you want to start off at that level, before ever touching the poly mesh. A mistake at the sculpting level can translate to a less appealing poly control cage.

Both methods are valid. "ZB sculpt - > retopologized cage" VS "cage -> sculpt"

[EVIL]

haven't read the thread so I don't know if someone posted this advice, but try to get the shapes right in the lower levels of the sculpt and only divide to the next level when you are fully happy with it.

Because what I now see is a model, with only details and not enough form to support the details, it looks like a human skin all wrinkly stretched over a formless round shape.

[cookepuss]

Yeah. I touched on that earlier. It's also possible, as I mentioned above, to sculpt the whole thing in ZB for starters and then just retopologize, essentially doing the usual process in reverse. It's not necessarily the best workflow, to me at least, but some people prefer it.

[cookepuss]

I turned one of my models into a tutorial for you guys.

"Buck"
A Character Modeling Tutorial
PART 1 - The Core Model (http://www.robertsanta.com/tutorials/character/part1/character_tutorial_part1.htm)

Even though it's definitely stylized, it should get at least you started or experimenting with stuff like poly loops and topology.

[Inkfish]

That's a very good one. It is a bit complex if you're not too familiar with basic character workflow. Kinda overkill right now. It does assume that you know something about the topic since it doesn't hold your hand at every step of the way. However, it covers quite a bit in the way of detailing, clothing, and retopologizing. Just be prepared. 7/2 hours seems like a lot of time, but it really isn't. For what the artist covers, he moves at a rather quick pace and skips steps now and then. I would recommend that you get this DVD, but only when you've got the basics down.


Honestly, I would suggest that Silo Character modeling DVD. Never underestimate the value of a simple model. It takes you from the concept sketch all the way to the final model. You get to see how he lays out the loops for the face, the torso, shoulders, buttocks, and so forth. You get to see how he aims to make the model as close to the source image as possible, even making compromises for what 2D stuff doesn't really make sense in a 3D world.

He also address practical concerns, such as modeling areas in certain ways that would keep the animators happy. In reality, areas like the shoulders and crotch need to be a modeled certain way so that they deform well under extreme circumstances. This DVD shows that through some of its careful loop placement, even if it doesn't put it into practice through posing.

The model may be (relatively) simple, but the greatest value to the DVD is in the set of techniques he teaches. You can always translate those things to a much more complex work later on down the road. The DVD's author may be using Silo, but the concepts are all program agnostic. You can use them anywhere.

Like the Gnomon DVD, it is also around 7 or so hours. However, the relative simplicity of the model means that you get to see 99% of the artist's work, even his mistakes and how he fixes them. IMO, that's part of where the real value lies. He's also a pretty good teacher and is easy enough to listen to for a prolonged period of time.

If I could only choose 3 training DVDs, I'd choose the Silo as my introductory lesson and the 2 Gnomon Ian Joyner DVDs - the modeling one you listed and its texturing related companion (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/ijo02.html).

Gnomon DVDs are a tricky thing. Not all Gnomon DVDs are made equal. Not to offend the parties involved, but (frankly) some of them stink. Not much better way to put it. For example: The "Humanoid Modeling" DVD sounds like a good introductory course, but it is so basic and not that well constructed. At 3.5 hours, you pretty much wonder why you paid $60 for it. You can find the same key information elsewhere on the internet and for free.

On the other hand, the Ian Joyner DVDs are worth their weight in gold. If you're an inexperienced character modeler, they may seem a bit over your head. You might have to watch them a couple of times for the info to sink in. However, as you get more into character modeling, you begin to realize how much he crams in in such a small space. The DVD is worth the money because not all of this info is available elsewhere, and certainly not freely. Most of us learned the same things through trial and error. Joyner's DVD can save you some of that trouble.





Thanks for the good information. I think i'll get the DVD you recomended. As you said it's more efficent and nerve saving in the long run to start with the basics. I learned that the hard way with traditional media, won't do the same mistake with 3d (i hope)

I tried some low poly modeling with max before, but it didnt' really fit well with me, the vertex pushing and pulling was a bit agitating, probably due to my un-familiarity with the program but if the form and rythm of the model benefit from this method, i'm sure it's a smoother way to go.



Cool looking concept.

Realistically, there's nothing wrong with ZBrush as a modeling tool. It just promotes backwards thinking if you choose to start at that level. You could always sculpt your character in ZBrush first. You just have to be prepared to retopologize it at a much lower detail level if you ever want to use it for anything other than a still image.

That's why I say that it's a backwards sort of thinking. One typically models the base cage first and then does the detailing second. Starting off in ZB first means that you get to make it look as cool as possible right off the bat. The downside is that you'll have to look later on for ways to make that detail stand out in a much lower poly control cage. You've got to think out all of those topology details after you've already dropped them in.

In some ways, it's easier to squeeze in 4 million polys worth of detail once you have your 4,000 poly model in place. It's a bit harder trying to figure out how to get your 4 million poly model down to 4,000 polys. The first way involves thinking about the shape and form immediately. The second way involves thinking in terms of sacrifice - what needs to go in order to preserve the overall form. Also, your sculpting ability really has to be top notch if you want to start off at that level, before ever touching the poly mesh. A mistake at the sculpting level can translate to a less appealing poly control cage.

Both methods are valid. "ZB sculpt - > retopologized cage" VS "cage -> sculpt"

Thanks for the explanation, i tried some quick tests with the retopologize tool, it seems pretty awesome, but i didn't quite get the edgeloops yet, and there's some horrible geometry there. i need to study more examples on edgeloops, etc that's for sure. But the thing i like about the :) retopo-tool is that it's quite simple to use and the vertexes are spaced in the same cordinates as your hipoly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/EDGELOOPISH.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/EDGELOOPISH1.png

[quote=EVIL] Thanks for the good advice! I assume you're talking about the older woman sculpt? The sculpt began it's life as a lowpoly head in max after a picture reference. After that i unwrapped it and exported into zbrush. I guess the zbrush pass messed the underlying forms. But thanks for the heads up, that's something i'll have to keep a close eye on in the future.

-

Thanks for the tutorial Cookepuss! i'll read it with thoroughly this evening :)

[cookepuss]

This message has been deleted by Inkfish. Reason: Hulkamania related reasons
Single best deletion reason EVER!

but i didn't quite get the edgeloops yet
Think of them as rubber bands that wrap around your muscles. As the model animates & deforms, these edge and poly loops stretch like a rubber band, taking the surrounding geometry with it.

For something to count as a poly loop, you have to have a series of edges running in parallel, like train tracks. Attached to this post is a look at how your poly loops actually flow and how I'd construct them. Obviously, that bottom one is just a very rough idea.

All I did was trace my poly loops around the mouth, eyes, brow, chin/forehead, & nose areas. Since I use poly loops, I think in terms of edge loop pairs. I'm pretty sure that you can follow these pairs as I've laid them out.

Ideally, I'd look to construct those regions without triangles. Triangles should be avoided model since they don't subdivide well. If you MUST use triangles, hide them. I like to hide them behind the ears or the back of the skull, where they viewers may never see them.

[cookepuss]

Just noticed that I f-ed up the nose loop. :p It hangs around the nose okay, but it should be hooking back around under the mouth. Oops. :p

[Inkfish]

Single best deletion reason EVER!


whatcha gonna do when doubleposting runs wild on you? ;)


Think of them as rubber bands that wrap around your muscles. As the model animates & deforms, these edge and poly loops stretch like a rubber band, taking the surrounding geometry with it.



Thanks, now the buggers are beginning to make some sense! The concept was really unclear to me before.



For something to count as a poly loop, you have to have a series of edges running in parallel, like train tracks. Attached to this post is a look at how your poly loops actually flow and how I'd construct them. Obviously, that bottom one is just a very rough idea.

All I did was trace my poly loops around the mouth, eyes, brow, chin/forehead, & nose areas. Since I use poly loops, I think in terms of edge loop pairs. I'm pretty sure that you can follow these pairs as I've laid them out.


Thanks for the paintover, i think i'll just scrape the polys i laid before and start from scratch acording to your advice.


Ideally, I'd look to construct those regions without triangles. Triangles should be avoided model since they don't subdivide well. If you MUST use triangles, hide them. I like to hide them behind the ears or the back of the skull, where they viewers may never see them.

Will do!




I made another head from zspheres, i tried to do my sculpting as low sdiv as possible, hope that helped with the proportion&rythm issues. If you have some advice on what to fix, please tell me :) (the ears need more work atleast.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/male_head.png

[Japhir]

that looks a ton better! great! his head looks a bit long right now and the eyebrows/that area could be a bit wider i think. great stuff! don't forget to compare this one to your first one and feel totally cool :D

[EVIL]

much better, be sure to tuck in the mouth corners, its something I hardly see done right.

[Inkfish]

Hey Japhir! Thanks for the advice, i'll implement them as soon as i'm done with the cage and the uv's,and thanks for the kind words :) I really like learning new things, and boy is there much to learn.


Re topologizing, thanks for the paintover and the tutorial Cookepuss, it really helped!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/retopo.png


By the way does anyone know a way to mirror the geometry i've done to the other side in zbrush? Or should i just import to max and do it there?

[cookepuss]

Just bring over one half into Max and do the symmetry there. No need to dupe the other side of the geometry in ZBrush. Unless there's a significant level of asymmetry, it's a waste of time.

[EVIL]

oh and there is a weird 5 edged polygon caused by the 4 sided poly right behind/above the ear

[cookepuss]

I see what you mean. It does look like there's a superfluous vertex on the edge. It may be that he's viewing it as an isoparm though, which would explain the curvature just as easily.

[Inkfish]

It wasn't a ngon there, i think the viewport messed up the line somehow (some tris there though ) I re symmetrized the head in max, as you suggested cookepuss, it sure saved some time :), i then uv-unwrapped the head and did some more work on the highpoly, then did the normals, diffuse, spec and bump maps. When baking normals and applying them is it necesary to mesh smooth the lowpoly? i couldn't make them unless i smoothed the lowpoly version and baked the normal

lowpoly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/Viisto-lowpoly.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/maps.png
ere with the maps
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/viisto-1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/male_front.png

Damn that took long, and it's still not where i would like it to be, but i think i learned a lot with this one, untill this piece i hadn't sucessfully used a normal map or any of the other maps, but i figured out the basics i think.

[Inkfish]

More recent stuff :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/wtf-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/inkfish/anatomystudy_low-1.jpg

[Snefer]

I like the character, but I think the distance between his breasts are too big, and too deep. And generally I'd say that a guy with chestmuscles that big would have more meat on his arms :) But i think the mid-part of the torso is really nice!

[mr_ace]

wow dude uve got so much better, i feel ashamed about how much work you do and how little i do. keep up the good work