Gnomon Workshop vs Eat 3d

[Canti_Cooly]

I was looking into buying a set of tutorials but did not know which would be better. I have looked at both and each has different things that would be good like the Drawing ones and character development of Gnomon but when it comes to say Zbrush videos which would you guys recommend?

[Kot_Leopold]

It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish by purchasing a tutorial or two from either one because in a way they're all good (and different). If you're more of a beginner then I would definitely recommend Digital Tutors or Michael Pavlovich's Intro to ZBrush series on Eat3D.

If on the other hand you're trying to nail down anatomy then I'd go for "The Form of Anatomy Series" by Zack Petroc.

Gnomon's tuts are more about each artist's techniques rather then a "how-to".

But you should definitely take a look at "Character Modeling for Production" and "Character Modeling for Next-Gen Games" by Gnomon Workshop. I heard they were pretty good. They're all under ZBrush category.

[Canti_Cooly]

I am primarily trying to learn about Zbrush because i have not had a class on it before and feel lost. The only thing i have watched is the Intro to Zbrush tutorials from Pixologic. The other thing i need help with and direction is my 2d art (again never had any form of instruction) feeling kind of lost on that front to. I am slowly getting better with one aspect of 2d but thats just side profiles of cartoonish characters. Every attempt i have made at frontal or action shots have failed miserably lol.

[geck]

eat3d dvd called "ZBrush Hard Surface Techniques" just amazing.

[MRico]

Eat3D is the way to go!

Learned so much from their DVD's and feel like I wasted my money with all the DVD's I've bought from Gnommon.

Eat3d has the character dvds and the anatomy one which is great! Highly recommend Eat3d DVD's

[talonhawk]

definitely eat 3d


first this
http://eat3d.com/zbrush35_intro

then (zbrush 4 new features)
http://eat3d.com/zbrush4_intro

[barriallen]

Eat3D has awesome tutos for middle to advanced users (that on hard surfaces is outstanding, e.g.). Others, like Lynda, address more to (almost) beginners. But if you are an absolute beginner with ZB, the best think you can do is purchase a good book and start following it , then, when you are about 200 pp. ahead, start tutorials. Erc Kellner's is a good introducing book, though not the very best for modeling techniques, imo.

[robinb]

It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish by purchasing a tutorial or two from either one because in a way they're all good (and different). If you're more of a beginner then I would definitely recommend Digital Tutors or Michael Pavlovich's Intro to ZBrush series on Eat3D.

If on the other hand you're trying to nail down anatomy then I'd go for "The Form of Anatomy Series" by Zack Petroc.

Gnomon's tuts are more about each artist's techniques rather then a "how-to".

But you should definitely take a look at "Character Modeling for Production" and "Character Modeling for Next-Gen Games" by Gnomon Workshop. I heard they were pretty good. They're all under ZBrush category.

I don't rate "Character Modeling for Production". It's kind of too old. The techniques aren't ones I'd recommend any more and the artist really doesn't explain what he's doing or why.

Generally I've been much more impressed by the Eat3D ones I've seen. They're not for beginners but they generally (from the ones I've seen) explain why things are being done better.

[mr_ace]

I don't rate "Character Modeling for Production". It's kind of too old. The techniques aren't ones I'd recommend any more and the artist really doesn't explain what he's doing or why.

Generally I've been much more impressed by the Eat3D ones I've seen. They're not for beginners but they generally (from the ones I've seen) explain why things are being done better.

I agree with this. I didn't learn much from that dvd back in the day and it's no doubt pretty outdated now

[Canti_Cooly]

wow thank you guys for all the advise. I have the zbrush core books i think. The one by Erik Keller the introduction to zbrush as well two by Scott Spencer. Just been looking for videos to maybe suppliment those three books. The one thing i need the most improvement on is my 2d techniques ( in which i have none lol).

[cookepuss]

I don't rate "Character Modeling for Production". It's kind of too old. The techniques aren't ones I'd recommend any more and the artist really doesn't explain what he's doing or why.

I wouldn't go so far as to call this DVD too old. They're proven techniques that are worth learning. There's still workflow stuff there that many people might find value it. Respectfully, Ian Joyner's not as natural of a teacher as some of their other artists, but his technique is still easy enough for beginning to moderately skilled artists to understand and follow along.

Having said that, do I think that it's worth $89 today? No. This is the type of DVD that Gnomon should heavily discount or offer for streaming only. $40-$45 might seem more reasonable.

I think that a more suitable replacement for the Ian Joyner DVD would be "Introduction to Character Modeling" by Mark Dedecker.

Generally I've been much more impressed by the Eat3D ones I've seen.

I pretty much have the opposite view. The topic syllabi are fairly comparable, but the topic models are what turn me off. Some of them just beat to death the same old "Gears of War", "Unreal", or "Half-Life" cliches. I don't have anything against those games or their design choices, but I think that they're a little played out and not really suitable for training material.

That's just me though.

Depending on your skill level, I'd have to say that:

- Digital Tutors is a perfect starting point for the absolute newbie. There's also enough stuff there to push you past the basics.
- Gnomon might have a few DVDs that need retiring or updating, but it's still a relevant source for more advanced topics. Their ZBrush stuff is still quite good.
- Eat3D is somewhere in-between, imo. I'm not sure that I'd recommend them to people, but I can certainly see the value in what they teach.

For ZBrush specifically, I'd have to go with a combination of the various books and the videos offered on Pixologic's site. Beyond that, there's not much that they can teach you that you can't either learn on your own or from more traditional sculpting resources.

[Canti_Cooly]

Thank you all for your advise again.

I was kinda hoping you would give your two cents on this topic Cook... i am going to have to do some heavy research over the weekend. I had no idea that Digital Tutors existed and i kinda think i am a bit of a beginner when it comes to some things like obviously 2d and Zbrush and unfortunately basic character design so they maybe a good place to start. Though from the sounds of it all three have great information for varying levels.

[Joco]

Personally, as a new artist, I found Eat 3D's training DVDs for 'Low-Res Character Production' and 'ZBrush Hard Surface Techniques' to be really insightful in practicing my modeling. The hard surface techniques really helped me in some areas that I couldn't figure out on my own when I was doing more complex sculpting in Zbrush. Their 'ZBrush 4 - New Features' would probably be a really good starting point, as was mentioned. Pixologic's site also has some goodies and links.

[talonhawk]

pixologic has zclassroom as well which is great for newcomers to zbrush


http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/

theres a pdf on there you can download plus

you should start here as well

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/

you dont have to pay a dime for this its all free and I have watched them several times. It doesn't go too indepth as Eat 3d does though. Also Lynda.com has zbrush training which was good. Has a good chapter called top pitfalls to avoid where your new to zbrush really awesome stuff.

As you become better and have more experience you will be able to get the most out of gnomon dvds or streaming it. Alot of lecturing and good workflows artists uses but its not something you can follow along with most of the time. Its the "Nuggets" you get from it that will help you in future projects.