Slight parent issue :P

[Roninfang]

Hmmm need a bit of advice on this family issue thing

Basically suggested starting own small family business thing us siblings

I don’t mind, but I told them I will still be job hunting for full time work will
In either a game or animation studio since that’s where my skill is fits, we can just probably hire someone else to handle the print shop, i can just check on the print shop on weekends. Don’t want to be stuck in a printing shop the long run, its not my thing…as a sideline I don’t mind but as a main full time job that I have to be there 24/7 no thanks unless it does 2d and 3d art as well for game or animation studios where my forte is

I mean even my friends and professors seen my portforlio I am fit in a game or animation studio i am not meant for advertising
parents almost never sees my portforlio or have very little knowledge in game or animation production
mom is a advertising graduate but she keeps insisting game design and advertising are just the same...:P

when i told her can you make 3d art...she got annoyed: of course i cant do that...me: then stop insisting when it comes to how an animation or game studio works that you know more

Mom keeps insisting graphic design because that’s the most prominent thing around here in the philippines…yeah there a lot of that here but in case you haven’t noticed its not my forte, I tried applying as a graphic designer many times, but just in case they haven’t noticed when I apply as an 3d or sometimes 2d artist for a game or animation studio, I get call back emails for a job interview or job test, supossively hired as a 3d artist for Toon City but project got cancelled, Top Draw almost made but too involved with the fandom (spearheading the art book project and helping organize the next PH convention, will be teaching again as well on the convention), latest one got an call back from Assist Asia a Game studio that outsources for Japanese clients especially Nintedo, mixed results passed the job test but just need more practice in texturing, Assist Asia suggested I call up Stan one of their senior 3d artist so that he can critique/train me a bit more since almost made it, keep sending them sample 3d artworks so that if I reach skill level I need I can start immediately.

And doing long-term freelance online work now for EXM games which started roughly 1 month ago doing both their 2d and 3d art and also helping hunt down for commissions

When I apply as a graphic designer…0 results

So yeah like business teacher mentioned before back in college…whats the point in going in a industry your not familiar with or good at…even if its popular, its like you have no talent or interest in basketball…even if basket ball is popular no point in playing it if I don’t have the talent or interest for it

Anyways what I suggested to my parents a business was a small printing shop in vmall ( a mall in the Philippines)
That also sidelines as a T-Shirt printing (this I can apply 2d skills as well since I can use an artwork of a character,creature, anime etc for a t-shirt design) and 3d prototyping (since 3d is my main forte)
Why T-shirt printing because since one I love going to anime conventions I can bring this printing store in anime conventions

Why 3d prototyping basically making 3d models with textures…Vmall. I see lot of people there that are into table top games, or toy shops…maybe they know someone that does 3d printing or such…youll never know…maybe they have ideas for a character/creature they want to have a 3d version and to be 3d printed

Why vmall, looking at the crowd…combination of business minded people (collaterals, calling cards…I wont be doing it since I suck at graphic design probably hire a graphic designer) gamers, anime otakus…yeah I am one too so I know how these people think and probably want

When I suggested this to parents they didn’t want…they keep insisting what they want

So whats the point of asking me if they wont listen, if that’s the case they wont listen
I leave the small family business thing in their hands they don’t want to listen anyways

[Mogo]

Basically suggested starting own small family business thing us siblings

As somebody who's been there before, it's a bad idea. You always think that you can make a go of it, but family and business don't mix well. It's just a recipe for disaster.

You think that you can, but leaving your personal sh** at the door is never easy. How you behave with your siblings or parents is not how you'd behave with your co-workers. There's too much history. It's almost impossible to weed out the decades worth or personal issue you have with one another in a work environment. The stress level of handling a new business gets cranked up to 11 and, suddenly, you're engaged in petty arguments over stuff that happened when you were kids. You don't ever think that it's going to happen, but it does.

At work, they're not your family. They're your co-workers. Decisions that are made or overwritten tend to be taken personally when you work with family. Those choppy waters are easy to navigate early on, but it tends to get personal as the stress builds and thing expand. That's the problem. It's not personal. It's business. VERY hard to separate the two.

Also, since you're working with family, everybody's commitment level is going to be different. It's not like at work where you're dealing with relative strangers. Family expects family to cut them a little slack. There's always somebody who's not pulling 100% of their weight because the family dynamic is overwriting the workplace ethic. Again, you don't think that it'll happen, but it does. No family is perfect. Not one. You're going to carry over those flaws into the family business.

Everything that annoys you about them, and vice versa, will be magnified times 100. If all you saw them for was 2 hours a week before, now you're seeing them for 60+. It's a pressure cooker.

I don’t mind, but I told them I will still be job hunting for full time work

In a start up business, there's no half-way. You're either in 100% or you're out. There's no middle ground. Nurturing new business is like raising a new baby. For it to succeed, everybody has to put in everything they've got. Get in early. Leave late. Work weekends if you've got to. There's no autopilot.

we can just probably hire someone else to handle the print shop

That's not feasible. Even if you're just paying that somebody a measly $15/hr for a seven hour day, that's $27k a year you've got to dig up. They're going to want to get paid regularly too so there's no nickel and diming them.

As a start up, the worst thing you can do is expand too quickly. That includes hiring employees. You'll barely be able to pay yourselves in that first year. It's nice to say, "Oh. I don't know how to do blah or bleh. I'll just hire somebody to do that." Well, you can't. Like I've told other people, when you start a new business, you've got to wear every hat. Even if you're not qualified.

You being there on weekends is going to put more of a burden on the other members of your team. The economy still sucks. Don't forget that. Most new businesses don't turn a profit in the first year. Most are just lucky to pay for the overhead. They might be able to pay for somebody for the first month or two, but cash will get tight as things continue. They'll have to let this person go. Then, one of them will have to pick up the slack, the pressure will mount, and everybody's personal crap comes to light. When it hits the fan, beware the splatter.

Don’t want to be stuck in a printing shop the long run, its not my thing…

Then don't get involved. Right off the bat, be open about it. When you leave.... If the business fails.... You're going to be the one who everybody's looking at. All of the fingers are going to be pointed your way. "Oh. The business could've succeeded if HE were here full time. HE left. Without HIM, we failed."

Most new businesses fail. Trust me when I say that you will be the scapegoat if things go sour. They'll be pissed off at you now for not joining up. They'll be even more pissed off at you if you leave them high and dry and they tank. The best way to not get shot is to remove yourself from the line of fire.

parents almost never sees my portforlio or have very little knowledge in game or animation production. mom is a advertising graduate but she keeps insisting game design and advertising are just the same...

HA!! Ain't that the truth. My dad's like, "You can do this right?" Total face palm. My dad has no idea what I do either. I might as well be a street juggler or male prostitute for all he knows.

Assist Asia suggested I call up Stan one of their senior 3d artist so that he can critique/train me a bit more since almost made it, keep sending them sample 3d artworks so that if I reach skill level I need I can start immediately.

Just be careful not to wear out your welcome. He's got a job to do too. I'm sure that he enjoys seeing your progress and is even hopeful that you'll join them. However, you don't want to be a pest either.

Anyways what I suggested to my parents a business was a small printing shop in vmall ( a mall in the Philippines)

Yikes! A mall? Here in the states, even in a small locale, the overhead can kill you. You've got to deal in volume.

That also sidelines as a

Be careful of diversification. Being able to provide your customers with a wide range of products or services is fine, but only when you're ready. You need to be able to keep up with demand. You also don't want to water down the business' focus with dead weight.

When I suggested this to parents they didn’t want…they keep insisting what they want

And that's why you don't mix business and family. It's not "Mom" and "Dad". It's "Paul" and "Irene" or "Mr. Bleh" and "Mrs. Blah". If you're in as partners, they can't pull rank on you just because they're your parents. If they're the bosses, they still owe it to you to at least listen to reason, even if they ignore it.

[Roninfang]

hmmm another issue i am having with is they keep insisting graphic design graphic design...sure its popular here in the philippines problem is i already explained it to them and showed my portforlio countless times

graphic design is not my forte

like i mentioned when i apply as a graphic designer i get 0 percent replies from studios

but when i apply as a 2d or 3d artist

like i said

"Mom keeps insisting graphic design because that’s the most prominent thing around here in the philippines…yeah there a lot of that here but in case you haven’t noticed its not my forte, I tried applying as a graphic designer many times, but just in case they haven’t noticed when I apply as an 3d or sometimes 2d artist for a game or animation studio, I get call back emails for a job interview or job test, supossively hired as a 3d artist for Toon City but project got cancelled, Top Draw almost made but too involved with the fandom (spearheading the art book project and helping organize the next PH convention, will be teaching again as well on the convention), latest one got an call back from Assist Asia a Game studio that outsources for Japanese clients especially Nintedo, mixed results passed the job test but just need more practice in texturing, Assist Asia suggested I call up Stan one of their senior 3d artist so that he can critique/train me a bit more since almost made it, keep sending them sample 3d artworks so that if I reach skill level I need I can start immediately."

another example why i think i am better fit an animation or game studio even my close IRL friends noticed that when i comes
to graphic design i struggle, takes me too long to come up even with a simple logo, but character design, creature design, mech design, 3d , 2d etc comes kinda of natural for me

we have this client for EXM games wanted a character art of his/her character in the same art style as Legend of Korra or Young Justice

i told the artist at EXM Games dont do a full blown colored commission yet, just do a quick sketch in the style the client wanted and show it to me

my guess was right when the artist sent me the sketch, the art is good problem is the head is still anime like so asked the artist to just adjust the head portion, i re drew the head portion myself in the art style client wanted so that the artist can get my point when the artist sent it back XD client was happy

so yeah if i have told the artist to go already with a full blown commission we would have lost that client XD

my boss at EXM games was very happy i made that call, it was a smart move...

so yeah i am better fit in an animation or game studio...not advertising/graphic design


isn't that kinda like a dead give away for them i more fit in a game or animation studio environment

:facepalm:

"So yeah like business teacher mentioned before back in college…whats the point in going in a industry your not familiar with or good at…even if its popular, its like you have no talent or interest in basketball…even if basket ball is popular no point in playing it if I don’t have the talent or interest for it"

another thing is...one nor me or my siblings have experience working a graphic design/ print studio

and mom keeps insisting its just the same as running any kind of store

i also suggested i have college friend he has his own graphic design studio now, and he suggested we can do a partnership since this friend of mine has the talent for graphic design, knows how run a graphic studio, and with him around we can both check on the small print shop, and hes been a very good friend to me through thick and thin, he visited me at my grand fathers funeral last year even though he was busy at work, we've helped each other in college, etc, etc...
so that means

we both can do our full time work thing
in my friend's case he is already working full time as a graphic designer and has a small graphic design studio of his own

as for me already doing long term freelance online work for EXM games

me, my friend and my siblings can just check on the print shop , it doesnt have to be just one person stuck there 24/7

and to be honest i really prefer someone who is already used to running a graphic studio to help me manage this not just soely
family relatives or siblings because none of us have the experience in running a graphic design/print studio...

i dont think just me and my siblings (its not that i dont trust them) will be enough to manage this even if it small print shop because we dont have the experience in running a print shop

i really want a good friend with the experience helping me out here

we already actually made a simple bussiness plan first

my friend will do the graphic design part since thats his forte
also his studio does also webdesign he also suggested i can also do freelance 3d for his clients and such since he admits thats not his forte

and ill work on the 2d (character art,creature art etc) and 3d since thats my thing

in case parent bring this topic up again i told my friend i really need him to be with me when we explain what we are planning

i dont want to manage this on my own because i honestly think i cannot do this on my own

"There's always somebody who's not pulling 100% of their weight because the family dynamic is overwriting the workplace ethic"

that another thing i am worried about...they want to bring my younger sister into the equation as well thing i admit she i responsible hardworking and such so i dont mind

problem is she just started college bussiness management and Pyschology

kinda KSP-Kulang sa pansin in filipino, kinda always wants to be center of attention and a bit ego-tistic...she has the mentality she always thinks she is always right

and another thing is she just started college...and grandparents have a thing of playing favoritism i have a feeling they might want to make her head of print shop or something because youngest, only girl etc business management major (in my circle of relatives from dad side, the traditional course like bussiness management, enginering, it etc etc are the success full ones...all other courses for them in their opinion is useless)
so yeah favoritism

Older brother is responsible and such as well only problem is...he isn't used to being a leader

and parents...especially mom, okay hand downs when it comes to photography she is good since that her hobby and likes doing the most...but sometimes back in college or do a bit of freelance graphic design (nothing hard since its not more forte) mom would sometimes insist, color is too dark, concept is not nice (when in fact the concept was given by client and thats what the client wants) like shes the client

when i tell her, thats what the client wanted, as much as i respect you or love you po i cant make any changes your not the client...mom gets annoyed :P

so what more if in family bussines if they insist what they want not what the client wants XD
__________________

and in case i will be needing more artist to help out...

like i mentioned i am already very active in MLP:FIM fandom

a lot of them are very good artist or potential to be one maybe i can hire them as freelancers when i need an extra hand

[Roninfang]

most of my Dad side relatives think that way

"You always think that you can make a go of it"

>_< which probably most of time when they try to start a bussiness doesnt come out very well

they keep starting a bussiness which they have no background it or not familiar with

and insist solely no outside help "just family"...that could have worked if they are familiar with the industry they jump into to

like my prof used to tell me before starting any kind of bussines research first dont just assume

and in the long run i already planned out a small scale studio that also does maybe concept art or 3d modeling/texturing services/outsources to the bigger ones...same set ups only difference is my bussiness plan back then was for a small scale animation studio similar to what my professors did and proved to be very succesfull

why i think its a good idea

1. I have the background/techinical knowledge and artistic ability for both game and animation tv series

2. I will be needing help managing the bussiness side since i am more of the artist

already have people in mind

i can ask help either...
a. my younger sister since she is taking bussiness management
b. one of my friends that is bussiness management major graduate
c. the close friend i am talking about that has his own small graphic design studio maybe even a partnership between our studios in the long run

as to what kind of services probably like i mentioned...more on the pre-production...definately not the animation part since need a hell lot of animators for that i only have friend who is really good at character animation...unless maybe this friend of mine is willing to teach the newbies

also have a friend from college who specializes in environment 2d art...though he is leaving for the U.S. in a short while...maybe i can get him as something like online artist later on when he leaves for the states

so all i need now a someone who excels at character rigging hmmm

also probably more on mobile phone /ipad games...you nuts for now not a good idea to aim of something like Ps3, PC etc etc

3. already made a lot of good connections

so maybe i can offer my studio to outsource/freelance for them

and off no project hours it will operate like a graphic design/print studio in the mall and maybe have a booth on anime conventions to advertise the studio or offer character/creature commissions etc etc...this way win win situation since mostly in anime cons there other game/animation studio that has booth...you know build up more connections along the way and more possible clients

of course i wont probably charge high on conventions since i love going to anime conventions i know most of them are usually students unless i go to the high ends one like CGoverdrive and such

actually back in college made a bussiness plan very similar to this idea my proffessors gave me 90+ they think its a good idea

also asked my other close friends they think its a good idea as well and fits my skill set, personality and hobbies and such

and sorry for the long post

[Mogo]

another issue i am having with is they keep insisting graphic design graphic design

It's fine to respect your elders, but you still have to live your life for yourself. If you're ever going to be your own man, you have to assert yourself and just deal with the fallout. They won't be happy, but your happiness matters too. They won't be around forever and you can't wait for them to die before you make a life for yourself.

As you said, your mom can't do CG so why should she expect you to do graphic design? You have to play to your strengths. You might be able to be decent at graphic design, but it makes no sense to do something that makes you miserable. In this global economy, you have to go where the work is. If the Philippines doesn't offer enough opportunities for CG artists then you should take your show on the road. Living abroad won't be easy, but nothing worth doing ever is. Sometimes, you have to change the scenery to follow your dream.

This is not meant to offend, but your family's insistence on you following their prescribed path sounds... destructive. You need to do what you feel is in your own best interest. If they can't understand that, or aren't willing to respect your choices, the problem is theirs not yours.

and mom keeps insisting its just the same as running any kind of store

Parents want what's best for their children. Unfortunately, parents don't always know what's best. I'm sure that your mother thought that HER mother was wrong a lot too. Your mother doesn't want you to worry about where your next meal is going to come from. She doesn't want you to worry about how you're going to pay rent. Because graphic design worked for her, she sees that as a clear road to success. She just doesn't realize that it's not your path.

Maybe, on some level, she wants also a family business so that, when she dies, she can leave it to you guys. You don't realize this until you get older, but the idea of legacy is important. You get older and you want to make your mark on the world. You want to leave something for your children. You want your children to hand it over to their children. It's an inheritence of sorts.

You shouldn't have to feel locked into somebody else's vision for you though. Just because you come from a long line of shepherds doesn't mean that you want to spend your days watching sheep grow old and die. It's okay not to want what she wants. Just because she wants you to inherit her legacy doesn't mean that you have to accept it. A free turd is still a turd.

i really want a good friend with the experience helping me out here

Yeah, but if it's not you really want then why bother? To make somebody else happy? If you DO get involved, treat it like a real business. You need something in writing that describes everybody's function and who's responsible for what. If it's not in ink then it doesn't exist. It sounds as if you don't trust them, but real businesses aren't candy stores. In that sense, your mother is very wrong.

I've seen family businesses treated like candy stores and it never works. Everybody has to know what's expected of them and what happens if they fail to do their duty. Everybody has to get paid formally; no treating the cash register like petty cash. ETC. The more people what are involved, the more imporant it is to formalize things.

problem is she just started college bussiness management and Pyschology

Same advice I had to you. She's got to live life for herself. Your mom means well, but she can't force you guys to be who you're not. As the older brother, you have to set the example for your younger siblings. You asserting yourself will make it okay for your sister to also. Otherwise, you're trapping yourselves in a vicious and self-destructive pattern.

Older brother is responsible and such as well only problem is...he isn't used to being a leader

That reflects what I said. He should be setting the tone. If he's tentative then everybody else falls like dominoes. If you're grandparents are covertly calling the shots like some James Bond villain then somebody needs to break the cycle. If you brother won't blaze that trail then maybe it has to be you. Your grandparents will die. Your parents will die. How will any of you know how to live if you've been in somebody else's shadow all your lives?

when i tell her, thats what the client wanted, as much as i respect you or love you po i cant make any changes your not the client...mom gets annoyed :P

Yeah, well.... To put it bluntly, tough shit. It's the client you have to make happy, not dear old mom. Your name is not Norman Bates and "mother" can't be at the top of your list of priorities. Family is important, but so are you. So is your client.

so what more if in family bussines if they insist what they want not what the client wants XD

Then they're wrong too. They're setting themselves on the road to failure. I've done dumb stuff for clients. Even when I know better, I have to give them what they want. Ideally, you'd be able to strike a balance between what you know is better and what the client wants. It doesn't always work that way though. If they want crap, what do I care as long as they're paying for it? It just won't be something I'll stuff into my portfolio if I'm not happy with it.

they keep starting a bussiness which they have no background it or not familiar with

Einstein once said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Digging a hole and hoping to eventually strike gold isn't a plan. You just end up tired and with lots of holes.

and in the long run i already planned out a small scale studio that also does maybe concept art or 3d modeling/texturing services/outsources to the bigger ones

Step #1: Move far away from family.
It's going to be hard to do what you want if people are constantly up your @$$ trying to push their own agendas.

i can ask help either...
a. my younger sister since she is taking bussiness management
b. one of my friends that is bussiness management major graduate
c. the close friend i am talking about that has his own small graphic design studio maybe even a partnership between our studios in the long run

Get everyhing in writing. EVERYTHING. Also, make sure that it's what your sister wants and that she's not just trying to make you happy. It's great to get people with the right skill sets, but you have to make sure that they actually want to be there first.

as to what kind of services probably like i mentioned...

Survey the market. Be sure that the demand is there. People may say, "Yeah. You've got our support. This is definitely what we need." However, as I learned a long time ago, people talk a good game. Once you know that the demand is there, you need to get clients to commit. Just saying that the demand is there isn't enough.

also probably more on mobile phone /ipad games...you nuts for now not a good idea to aim of something like Ps3, PC etc etc

Start small for now. The PC games market is touch and go. The console market is tough to get into for small developers. Your best bet, starting off, would be iOS. There's a price for getting started up on their platform, but it's much more approachable and less financially risky. Development cycles are shorter and you'd be reaching out to a market that still emerging and hungry for content.

actually back in college made a bussiness plan very similar to this idea my proffessors gave me 90+ they think its a good idea

Yeah, but school is different than real life. I'm sure that it was a good plan, but teachers aren't out in the field. They're in classrooms. They deal more in theory than the ugliness of reality. The real world moves a lot faster than text books.

[Roninfang]

hmmm emailed my friend that has his small graphic design studio and wants to partner

i told him to write up a bussiness even if its rough for now

in case parents bring up the topic again

(i trust him he is a good friend, weve been friends through thick in thin, we go to each other bday blowouts' so yeah close friend, like i mentioned he visited me on grandfathers funeral and such, has the experience and since he has the experience for graphic design and skilled at it, this small game dev studio aside from churning out games on off months/no projects to work on can operate as a graphic design studio since the software needed is already there...photoshop,illustrator XD)

i told him i need him with me when we explain and at least when explain to parents already something written planned in case they bring the topic up again

theres another new indie game dev group i am probably going to contact i tried applying for before...passed problem is they dont have budget to hire new people so they instead i just talk to , sometimes i seek advice from them maybe every once a month or, and they have my contact details, they will just contact me when they have budget to hire new people, were in very good terms