new Character scene

[fluxist8070]

Here is the latest:



Here is my latest. I would love to know what you think.

[cookepuss]

Interesting concept. Some basic execution and composition issues though.

I'm going to be a bit harsh. Forgive me if I accidentally bruise your ego.

- Who are they shooting at? It feels as if we've got half a scene.
- That's some odd leg anatomy for that far right character.
- Wings are always a cool visual, but if you can't do them justice via either texture, hair/fur, or poly then don't bother.
- Some uneven texture work, especially for that woman. As a whole, some of the textures feel too inconsistent, too low poly, too procedural looking, or too uneven in detail distribution.
- The lighting on the models doesn't seem wholly consistent with the lighting implied by that washed out, over saturated cloud layer.
- What's going on with that guy in the bottom left corner? Is that a cape, a shield, or something else? If it's a shield then it's not clear in it purpose. If it's a cape then the poly res is too low for convincing deformation.
- The scene reads as "flat" in its presentation. It is too much of a straight forward layout. It's really lacking a certain dynamic to both the camera placement and the tension of a battle. A shift in camera, some muzzle flash, and some altered poses could work wonders. Your best research would probably be some comic book covers. They do this type of scene on a regular basis. If you've got the old Stan Lee & Sal Buscema "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way" dig that up too. (Perfect reference for these action shots, especially those with a team dynamic.)
- Ether refine the helmet on that gal or ditch it. (At least I hope it's a helmet. )
- The guy in the far background layer is a waste of space. He doesn't add anything to the composition. His existence seems redundant here. It might be justified if we could see a bit more of him or if the battle was clear and present. However, with a recycled pose and geometry, I'd probably get rid of him.

Harsh. I know. Sorry.

Again, the concept is promising. The idea of a nice ariel battle could have been something special here. There's just a lot that needs work. I wouldn't give up hope though. You've already laid a solid foundation. It just needs some more work. Right now , the job is just half done (imo).

[fluxist8070]

Hey Cookepuss,
Thanks for your time and feedback. I appreciate it.

[fluxist8070]

Here is an update. I made the muzzle flash with Maya nParticles and photoshop.
The clouds are fluid sims that I have been rendering stills of at different states and applying the renders as different blend modes until I think I have something.
I still need to add reflected light from teh flash to the shooter. That will reall bring him forward! I just finished toning down all the previous highlights to do this...that is next setting.

[fluxist8070]

Here is the mage with highlights and a colder background. It seems like it has turned into a night scene.

[Ritorian]

I agree with what cookepuss said, it's a cool idea, and promising scene, just needs some finess.

maybe you can shift the camera back a bit and angle it underneath them more so the cam is lookin up more, it should give the illusion that they are higher up, especially the chic flying. Set yer cam in Maya to a widescreen format too so it's a little wider, it'll look cooler plus it'll open yer scene up more, giving you more room to play. Seems a bit crowded to me.

Also it might be a good idea to put some visuals in the BG maybe a mountain of some sort or building. Cant really see too much back there right now. And it'll really help yer scene alot.

The wings could use some work, there an eye drawer, so u might wanna make em a bit cooler and more intricate, right now they seem unfinished. maybe what you could do instead of thick geometry is just use a shit load of planes (placed properly of course) with alphas and a nice feather texture. If the wings arent supposed to be feathers then I'd suggest doing a little more modeling. maybe look at some X-MEN "Arc Angel" reference from comics

The gun the dude is holding is cool but it needs more texture work, again it looks unfinished. The clip on it looks sweet, but the rest looks flat and like you just threw some color on it and thats it. maybe some cracks, scrapes, turnished gun metal and so forth. A little detail goes a long way

The gun fire doesnt really look like gun fire, gun fire is usually pretty sharp and jagged. I'm not sure what yer doing with this scene, if its gonna be an animation or just a still shot, if it's just a still shot then I'd suggest comping that in later in photoshop with some nice painting. If it's an animation then I'd play around with yer dynamics settings a bit more.

Like what cookepuss said too, it'd kinda be nice to see what there shooting at, or at least a hint. For example if they were shooting at some huge octopus creature, then maybe you would see a tentacle bleeding out from the side. Or if it was a bunch of people maybe you'd see a arm or two busting outta the side or even the back of someone, or even better the whole person or persons, anything to suggest an enemy. but again think composition don't jsut throw a arm off the side, make it interesting have fun and use yer imagination . Again increasing yer cam width to a wodescreen format will allow for some more room to play with and give yer scene a nice overall compositon.

So far what you've got goin on here is kool, but I think to me it's only the start of a good piece, u can take this scene alot further and push it too become something really really kool. Have fun with it and be creative, it'll really help it.

Oh and lose the clouds, put em way off in the BG, I thought it was smoke at first or mist. Work on yer BG then throw em in. Or leave them out entirely. Clouds are usually way off in the distance, if there right in the clouds it would just be really misty and you wouldnt really know they were in the clouds unless you see them from really far away, remember clouds are massive forms. Id leave em far off in the BG.

I'm not tryin to be harsh btw, just tryin to help you make a nice scene because I like the idea yer goin with here. cheers

[fluxist8070]

Hey Ritorian,

Thanks for the feedback, seriously. I am trying to "level up" here, so I do appreciate the feedback. I have been looking at Archangels wings...the post Apocalypse ones made of adamantium, but I agree, I need to make them nicer. right now they just look blocky. I want to re-address the wings of the sniper too.
THis is just going to be a still image, but I would like to have a couple of really polished characters. I am taking feedback here seriously. thanks again for your time.

[CaptainHowdy]

I REALLY like that blue angel-type girl, if it were me, I would work her up to a really finished level and make her the focal point. There's a really nice character idea there that warrants the extra attention and work.

[fluxist8070]

Thanks for your feedback. I am re-designing the wings for the blue angel right now. I am going to put more focus on her.

[fluxist8070]

Here is where I am with the wings. I am still thinking about what these characters are battling. It seems like I need to create a really gnarly beast!
The top is the inside of the wing and the bottom is the outside.

Version1


Version2

[cookepuss]

The color palette is visually pleasing. The basic aesthetic of it is nice. It's a certainly a reflection of your traditional 2D background, especially version 2. (The fine details of those discs will get lost in the final image though. Overkill probably.)

However....

You say that you're thinking about what this characters is battling. Considering context is definitely a good step toward solidifying that design element, that creative direction. Good so far. The problem, as I see it, still sits firmly in the underlying structure.

For one thing, I'm not sure if the chosen wing design is appropriate. What you have here is probably more fitting of a condor or something. I can't imagine those being mounted on a back.

Plus, getting a convincing pose out of what you already have could be tricky. Getting to those feathers working in practical groups should be considered early on. They'll probably work just fine a single plane of rotation. In a 3D plane, probably not as much.

I'd put aside the small strokes of the design for a moment and head back to tackle those big forms first. Function over style. So, while design 2 looks cooler, I have a hard time believing that it is any more practical, from a pose perspective. The exposed wing arm doesn't help the visual much either. For now, forget anything with color or texture. Just get it working as a plausible mechanical structure.

Here are a few visuals to on which to meditate.

http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs10/f/20.../b/brrdtut.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...haded_edit.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/g6/94/483994/2/72681113.2Wlbuakc.jpg
http://www.featheringcrestaviary.com...ingResized.jpg
http://www.ohlalaparis.com/photos/un...ngel_xmen3.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6...lewingspo2.jpg
http://www.cybertattoos.cyberbuzzz.c...gel_wings.html

What you have here is a much more solid effort than the first go around though. You're getting on the right track. I like the idea of individual feathers over one solid mass. I'd just go back and reevaluate the "how" and "why" instead of the "what" of the design. Get a primary form that's easy to rig and convincing enough to be plausible.

Also consider that your actual feathers, as they're going to be textured, don't need to be much more than some alpha-ed textures. The bonus to this is that you can stuff on more feathers in a layered fashion for a more convincing entity.

[fluxist8070]

Hey Cooke,
Thanks for the feedback and visuals. Yeah, I keep trying to imagine how the wings will close. Right now it would ba alot of bones and alot of parenting...and it would probably look pretty bad. when closed. I may have to use larger plates on the back instead of all the little shields... Either way, I am having some fun with this design

thanks again. I really appreciate your time!

[Ritorian]

Hey man I would maybe try and do yer wings like in this tutorial link here:

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tut...a/lowpolyHair/

it's an excellent tutorial for low-poly game hair, I know yer doin feathers and all but it's essentially the same idea. Personally I think it's perfect for what your tryin to accomplish, and it'll save u alot of unnecessary modeling, plus it'll make yer wings looks amazing if u just apply these techniques to making feathers instead of hair. In his tutorial he uses paint effects I wouldnt really bother with that, unless u want to, I would maybe just create a few different kinds of feather textures (that relate to each other) in photoshop with some nice painting skills, or u can google some kool lookin feathers and touch them up to look kooler, what ever u prefer, and then just apply them to planes with alphas in a creative and natural fassion.

[fluxist8070]

Thanks for the link Ritorian. I didn't listen first go around, and now the wings look really "heavy." I think I am going to do the transparency maps today.
thanks!

[Ritorian]

good choice good luck, and be creative! Cookepuss gave u some great ref for wings I'd suggest really lookin at them. particulary the pencil drawing of the angel sitting down(think it's the second link) I think it's perfect for yer character. Maybe just amp up the coolness factor a tad, with some creativeness and u should have some awesome wings. cheers

[fluxist8070]

Well, here is my latest wing design. I feel much better about it. Much better looking and way fewer polys. The wings feel lighter to me now. I added some transparency to the individual feathers too, so it is like combining a bunch of insect-ish wings to make a large bird wing. I am going to re-address the loincloth with the new vector pattern. I am also going to do something more interesting with the helmet too. I still have some tweaking to do with the feathers. Once i get the ffeathers where I want them, I can parent them to the appropriate bone and then smooth bind the wingbone. Then, I should be in good shape....I think.
Thanks for all the GREAT feedback! It had made a big difference!
will post more soon...



here is a detail

[fluxist8070]

Here is where I am now with the Blue Angel after dwelling on the feedback some more. I shrank the wings, changed the bra boots and loin cloth. I also adjusted the diffuse maps so that all the parts share the same red-orange. I also did some additional work on the hands. Last, but now least, I changed the pose for the still. The lighting is basically 4 point light a key, rim and 2 fill lights for the wings. Unfortunately, the maps are kinda messy now that I have made all of these changes...so i don't really want to show those :think: I put the second revision of the wings on the back wall to balance things out a bit.

[cookepuss]

Now we're getting somewhere. The wings could use some more finesse toward the back. Not 100% sold on the wing texture. Overall, though, it's a big improvement over what you had. Toss in a pose with some more attitude, a more appropriate environment, some decent hair, and a more dramatic lighting setup.....

There are other things too, but you're really looking like you're headed in the right direction now. Much more focused. The battle scene wasn't a bad idea, but this gal here really was the strongest element there. Better to make her the centerpiece of attention than to let the other elements that weren't quite as strong drag the whole composition down.

Looking forward to seeing where it goes next.

[fluxist8070]

Thanks Cooke!

Yeah, I feel alot better about this character....still needs some more work though. for this scene i was trying to do what Thomas Cole does in his landscapes were sometimes he placed the focal point in the middleground instead of in the foreground...
http://www.isu.edu/~wattron/cole_oxbow.jpg

But once I put the muzzle flash in, it became the "hot spot" in the image and that notion was toast. I think this model is getting to the point where she can stand on her own...finally! The feedback helps!
thanks again.

[fluxist8070]

After staring at the scene longer it was too cold overall. So, I have added some warmer light. I am a huge fan of dutch and flemish painting because of the golden glow they create. It is a very unique light. Added some lowpoly hair too.
I also took the transparency off of the middle of the feathers.