Workflow question

[MattBlack]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to this kind of thing. I'm trying to do something for Dom
war but I'm wondering about the process - and the workflow most people use.

Do you start a low poly mesh in Maya (and what constitutes low poly?) then bring it into Zbrush and add details, unwrap UV's, export normal map, bring back into Maya and apply normal map to low poly mesh ? When do I paint in Maya or Zbrush??

If someone could help me with this I'd be grateful,

Thanks,

MB

[MRico]

Here's my flow...

Spend countless hours trying to figure what I want to do....

Build a sculpting base mesh in 3ds max, with the rough height and bulk of the character I'm going for...

Sculpt away in zbrush....

retopo my sculpt in zbrush, or in max with the final low poly....

Unwrap the low poly....

Use Xnormal to create normals and AO and take them into photoshop and start painting away....

wait 5 minutes before the deadline and rush to get my final image setup, and turn it in.

It sounds complicated, but once you do one character, the process will become easier and easier.

[sinz]

Autopsy:
LOL man all of that is so true. Espeically the deadline and I am always trying to submit ahead of time, glad im not the only one. I really want to break that habit though.

MattBlack:
You can also create a base or character straight from Zbrush with Zsphere's which might be (at first) a little tough but I find that if your going to use Zbrush anyway it would be best to try to keep everything in there.

But,
On the other hand having done both processes myself I find creating a base in your preferred application (Max, Maya, Silo ECT..) and then importing into your sculpting program is the best bet since once your done with the highpoly you can just create the normal map from your base (with a little bit of work) if it was that good and has all the appropriate loops in place.

Hope that helps a little more but, I am only really just adding more points and or options from what has already been mentioned.

To your question on the lowpoly in this case it would be the required amount of triangles in DomWar 4 your allowed 10,000 triangles to use and submit as your lowpoly, your highpoly could have an endless amount as it is used for normalmap generation ONLY!.

[shadowmonkey]

My first atempt with zbrush was

Build basic mesh in Max (UV Mapped)

Import to Zbrush

Mesh around with Zbrush

Wonder why its looking crap.

Realise that a base mesh with Zspheres is now the best way to go as Sinz has said.

Refine Zspheres model (once you have a basic skelington you can adjust it for new charaters.

here is my example of what i did and learnt from my misstakes

http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=7450

[MattBlack]

You guys rock! Thanks for all your help

[shadowmonkey]

http://gnomonology.com/

[MattBlack]

Ok I have got something out of zbrush and applied it to my model - but it dosn't have the smoothness it should have with a normal map. I put it on the bump map as well as
the diffuse - any ideas what I am doing wrong??

[MRico]

You have to smooth your model, inside your app...which is, maya, right?

[MattBlack]

wow autopsy - that was fast
If i smooth the model dos'nt that increase the polycount (I'm up against the 10,000 tris limit already) Or do you mean the normals?? Maya yes

[MRico]

lol, I get that a lot.

Don't like...sub-d it...I don't know how to do it maya, but you can smooth the normals on your low-poly so it's not such sharp edges.

Edit: Ummm...I dunno if this will help, since I don't know how to do it. But I think this guy was doing it in maya.

http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/f...ewthread/7183/

Reply #2 should be the options you should try to see if it looks any better.

[Mrpearlzildjian]

You need to smooth the normals. Select your mesh, make sure your polygons menu is up, then go to Normals>Soften Edge. That should do the trick.

What size texture and normal map did you render out? The anti-aliasing quality looks really bad. I always render out a 2048x2048 and just shrink it down in Photoshop if it needs to be smaller. You keep more of the quality this way.

Don't know if you're planning on getting this into Dom War, but in case you don't know, the deadline is tonight at 11:59PM Eastern Time(10:59PM Central), so you'll have to get workin' to get this done in time.

[MattBlack]

so then my Zbrush loveliness will shine through?

[MattBlack]

You need to smooth the normals. Select your mesh, make sure your polygons menu is up, then go to Normals>Soften Edge. That should do the trick.

What size texture and normal map did you render out? The anti-aliasing quality looks really bad. I always render out a 2048x2048 and just shrink it down in Photoshop if it needs to be smaller. You keep more of the quality this way.

Don't know if you're planning on getting this into Dom War, but in case you don't know, the deadline is tonight at 11:59PM Eastern Time(10:59PM Central), so you'll have to get workin' to get this done in time.

Thanks - yeah I know I'm out of time - but I want to finish this anyway - I need all the practice I can get

[Mrpearlzildjian]

Hey, practice makes perfect, especially in this profession. You should see some of my pieces from a year ago. Everyone can evolve greatly by sitting down for a few hours a day and just screwing around and seeing what you get. DVD's are a great source as well. Checking out other peoples work helps a bunch as well.

If you're willing to learn new programs, I would definitely recommend learning xNormal. It's relatively simple, and it gives you fantastic results for Normal Maps and AO Maps. It will give you a couple notches of quality above Zbrush(or the ZMapper, whichever one you're using).

Hope you finish it.

[MattBlack]

Hey, practice makes perfect, especially in this profession. You should see some of my pieces from a year ago. Everyone can evolve greatly by sitting down for a few hours a day and just screwing around and seeing what you get. DVD's are a great source as well. Checking out other peoples work helps a bunch as well.

If you're willing to learn new programs, I would definitely recommend learning xNormal. It's relatively simple, and it gives you fantastic results for Normal Maps and AO Maps. It will give you a couple notches of quality above Zbrush(or the ZMapper, whichever one you're using).

Hope you finish it.

Thanks again - I will post when I'm done!

[MattBlack]

Thanks again - I will post when I'm done!

Ok well I managed to export an .obj of the high res mesh from Zbrush and put it back into Maya. I'm not sure what I do now?? Does this mesh count as a normal map, do I paint this up - what do I do with the low res mesh??

[MRico]

Ummm...what you can do is, use that high mesh to create the normal map for the low-rez. Again, I don't know Maya so I dunno how to do it. But it seems like your lowpoly mesh could use some fitting, it could be a bit tighter to the high poly.

Basically, you know the high poly mesh from zbrush? Well, the main goal is to fake all that detail onto your low poly mesh, you use a normal map for that. So you need to generate one, either in zbrush, using zmapper, in Maya or other methods like xNormal.

You need to make sure you low poly, fits around your high poly, your lowpoly needs to be unwrapped, not the high.

[MattBlack]

Ummm...what you can do is, use that high mesh to create the normal map for the low-rez. Again, I don't know Maya so I dunno how to do it. But it seems like your lowpoly mesh could use some fitting, it could be a bit tighter to the high poly.

Basically, you know the high poly mesh from zbrush? Well, the main goal is to fake all that detail onto your low poly mesh, you use a normal map for that. So you need to generate one, either in zbrush, using zmapper, in Maya or other methods like xNormal.

You need to make sure you low poly, fits around your high poly, your lowpoly needs to be unwrapped, not the high.

Again autopsy thanks for you're speedy reply! So if I understand you correctly I don't need a high res mesh - I should just use that to fit the low res to more snugly? then the normal map will do the heavy lifting??

[MRico]

Well, you need the high poly to generate the normal map and ambient occlusion map. Once you have those two maps finalize you will probably only be working with the low-poly, texturing, rigging, animating and rendering.

Check this out, it's one of my favorite DW entries....

http://www.3d4all.org/foruns/showthr...=24074&page=16

It's like that last post on that page, and that shows you what a normal map is doing...first big image...I think it's inside of zbrush.

Right below that, in the upper left hand corner, is his low-poly UV's layed out. Underneath that, is his normal map and underneath that is his ambient occlusion map....

....now the middle image is his low-poly. Which was modeled ontop of the high to fit snugly, then to the right is the low-poly with normal map and an ambient occlusion map on it....you see how the low-poly looks just like the high? That is what you want to shoot for.

[SinisterUrge]

For texturing, I use Bodypaint rather than Photoshop. You can't beat being able to paint directly onto a model.

My current workflow is:

1. Basic concept
2. Research for reference, this happens throughout the process
2. Base Mesh in Max, sometimes move into Zbrush to move around the model
3. Concept drawing
4. Refine and finish bash model in Max
5. Export to Zbrush and start sculpting, sometimes it helps to split up the model to be able to sculpt more detail
6. Uv map in max using pelt mapping
7. Use xnormal to create the AO and Normal map
8. Paint the diffuse map in bodypaint, as well as removing seams in the AO and Normal
9. In photoshop, I desaturate the normal map and use levels to create the specular map. Its then just a matter painting it in places to get the right spec value.
10. Setup to be rendered in Max using Mental Ray
11. Touch up and make presentable in Photoshop and then you are done.
12. Post image in forums and to friends to get as much feedback as possible
13. Feel happy with what you have done
14. Look back at it and see how bad it looks compared to your current work